Rail Observations 2025

[rtt_rules]

Visited the Expo over the weekend. There were multiple announcements o the platform that "the next train to arrive at Platform 1 does not stop".

At around 1 pm Monday, the PA started blaring "This is an emergency! All passengers must leave the terminal immediately" on and off for about 15 minutes. (Although it was almost impossible to hear over the crowd noise in the concourse). The ST staff didn't seem to react to it, let alone the "passengers" (I guess most of the people there weren't actually intending to be passengers). Good thing there wasn't actually a problem.

Expo where? OP?

[boronia]

Transport Heritage Expo at Central(i)

[rtt_rules]

Transport Heritage Expo at Central(i)

Nice!

[Glen]

Visited the Heritage Expo over the weekend. There were multiple announcements o the platform that "the next train to arrive at Platform 1 does not stop".

There was a similarly inane announcement on rotation on platform 3.

If I came back as a person of influence, I don't whether I'd like to be able to fix the entire railways or just stop their ridiculous announcements.

[SthnStarRail]

Visited the Heritage Expo over the weekend. There were multiple announcements o the platform that "the next train to arrive at Platform 1 does not stop".

There was a similarly inane announcement on rotation on platform 3.

If I came back as a person of influence, I don't whether I'd like to be able to fix the entire railways or just stop their ridiculous announcements.

Second option is the cheapest of the two.

[Swift]

There were vintage buses I was told. Including PTC blue AEC Regent III 2643 and Leyland Titan 2186.

[R44]

Visited the Heritage Expo over the weekend. There were multiple announcements o the platform that "the next train to arrive at Platform 1 does not stop".

On Saturday it was Platform 3, the train there apparently "ends here, please do not get on this train". Duh, it was the Aurora and it was not going anywhere.

I'm not sure if they can suppress announcements of that nature but that would be a good enhancement to the PID software, if they could.

[boronia]

I have seen the platform displays showing "train does not stop" a few times in the past.

And there are the "this train is not in service, do not board the train" signs when there is no train there or due any time soon.

[Linto63]

T6 services last Sunday were being operated by eight carriage sets, first time I am aware of this happening since the platform at Bankstown was extended earlier in the year.

[rtt_rules]

T6 services last Sunday were being operated by eight carriage sets, first time I am aware of this happening since the platform at Bankstown was extended earlier in the year.

I thought the final work required to allow 8 car sets was only recent.

Assume 8 car sets must be run occassionally to keep infrastructure in operational condition.

[Transtopic]

Perhaps they might run 8 car sets from Liverpool to Bankstown when the metro opens. No sure that 8 car sets are needed for the T6 shuttle. It could finish up with Liverpool to Bankstown running in tandem with Liverpool to CBD via Regents Park.

[rtt_rules]

Perhaps they might run 8 car sets from Liverpool to Bankstown when the metro opens. No sure that 8 car sets are needed for the T6 shuttle. It could finish up with Liverpool to Bankstown running in tandem with Liverpool to CBD via Regents Park.

Thinking this would be the logical approach rather than Bankstown to Lidcombe. For the later, I would have though a pair of Z classes would do the job.

[Linto63]

Eight car trains last Sunday was most likely because of the NRL grand final.

Running services from Liverpool to Bankstown would likely have to be at the expense of existing services as while there is capacity north of Cabramatta, south of it is already congested.

[Transtopic]

Eight car trains last Sunday was most likely because of the NRL grand final.

Running services from Liverpool to Bankstown would likely have to be at the expense of existing services as while there is capacity north of Cabramatta, south of it is already congested.

From what I can see there are a maximum of 14tph in the morning peak between Liverpool and Cabramatta, comprising 6tph x T2 + 4tph x T3 + 4tph x T5. I don't know what the line capacity is with the current signalling, but surely it could be upgraded to 18tph to accommodate another 4tph from Liverpool to Bankstown. I never thought that the ST platforms at Bankstown were extended for 8 car trains purely for the T6 shuttle.

A lot will depend upon the outcome of the New Cumberland Line.

[Linto63]

The New Cumberland Line, if it ever happens, is decades away, if there is going to be a reintroduction of Liverpool to Bankstown services it will be next year. Unless the M1 shaves a significant amount off the Liverpool to the CBD trip, which it appears it wont, there probably isn't a need. Sefton to Central via the T3 is currently 39 minutes. Under the final T3 timetable via the Bankstown line it was 15 minutes from Sefton to Bankstown and with the M1 to Central expected to take 28 minutes, will be 43 minutes plus interchange time.

Even if it was never intended that eight car trains regularly operate to Bankstown, from a contingency point of view it made sense should there be a need to divert a T3 service.

[Scott4570]

Bankstown Line Services have been built up to 8car consist, on two Weekends before, when Leppington Services are diverted to run via Regents Park.
When this happens, instead of 3 services each hour, the service is cut back to 2 each hour (one every 30 minutes).

Last Sunday, October 5, NRL Grand Final day, the Bankstown Line Services were increased to 4 services each hour with 8car consist.

[Transtopic]

The New Cumberland Line, if it ever happens, is decades away, if there is going to be a reintroduction of Liverpool to Bankstown services it will be next year. Unless the M1 shaves a significant amount off the Liverpool to the CBD trip, which it appears it wont, there probably isn't a need. Sefton to Central via the L3 is currently 39 minutes. Under the final L3 timetable via the Bankstown line it was 15 minutes from Sefton to Bankstown and with the M1 to Central expected to take 28 minutes, will be 43 minutes plus interchange time.

Even if it was never intended that eight car trains regularly operate to Bankstown, from a contingency point of view it made sense should there be a need to divert a T3 service.

Good point and probably why it wasn't the preferred option in the community consultation for operation when the metro line opens.

I note that in the recent future network strategy that the T6 shuttle is replaced with the proposed Kogarah to Parramatta metro interchanging with the T3 Liverpool to Lidcombe shuttle at Sefton,

[rtt_rules]

The New Cumberland Line, if it ever happens, is decades away, if there is going to be a reintroduction of Liverpool to Bankstown services it will be next year.

Unless the M1 shaves a significant amount off the Liverpool to the CBD trip, which it appears it wont, there probably isn't a need. Sefton to Central via the L3 is currently 39 minutes. Under the final L3 timetable via the Bankstown line it was

15 minutes from Sefton to Bankstown and with the M1 to Central expected to take 28 minutes, will be 43 minutes plus interchange time.

Even if it was never intended that eight car trains regularly operate to Bankstown, from a contingency point of view it made sense should there be a need to divert a T3 service.

Current T3 - 41 min for most services, give or take

Old timetable, 9 MIN : Sefton - Bankstown , not sure where you got the 15min from.
Metro Bankstown to Central 28 min
Total : 37 min plus change.

HOWEVER today
If looking at travelling to Martin Place
- Fastest option not using the Bankstown line Metro : T3 / T9 / M1 at 42 min.

- Fastest option not using M1 : T3 / T9 / T4 fastest is 43 min, typically 45 - 47 min

- Fastest option using the so called single seat journey : T3 / SCO (which will eventually be T3 / T4) 48 min

- Real fastest option single seat : T3 / walking 55 min

Again the poorly drafted survey issued to the good people of greater T3 land was far from inclusive and the single seat journey is slower.

M1 from Liverpool option
Its 10km from Bankstown to Liverpool via a reasonally direct corridor. Assuming 2 midway stops we are talking around 10 min, maybe 11 min tops to Liverpool, total travel time to the city, 39 min, feel free to call it 40min to save an argument.

T3 timetable is typically 58 - 60 min to Central. T2 + 60 min

Throwing the single seat journey out the window using ST olnly
-> 51 min back tracking via T2, T8 and T4
-> 55 min T5 / T8
-> 54 min using T3 / T9

So M1 from Liverpool will save them around 15 min or so and less due to greater frequently.
Lets call it T6 Liverpool to Bankstown then M1 will be around 55 min, same as going via the western corridor with a similar number of seat changes and faster than a single seat journey

Again, with all due respect this is why the survey is not worth being even used as toilet paper and won't stand the test of time if it hasn't already been sidelined. The people were not given all the options (because its complicated) and as such given the lowest common denominator option which is not actually their best option anyway.

[Transtopic]

Again, with all due respect this is why the survey is not worth being even used as toilet paper and won't stand the test of time if it hasn't already been sidelined. The people were not given all the options (because its complicated) and as such given the lowest common denominator option which is not actually their best option anyway.

The community consultation did in fact offer 3 options, with option 2 being TfNSW's preferred option. It was the one most supported by the community.

[rtt_rules]

Again, with all due respect this is why the survey is not worth being even used as toilet paper and won't stand the test of time if it hasn't already been sidelined. The people were not given all the options (because its complicated) and as such given the lowest common denominator option which is not actually their best option anyway.

The community consultation did in fact offer 3 options, with option 2 being TfNSW's preferred option. It was the one most supported by the community.

Option #1 : T3 and T6 to Bankstown only
- No timetable / travel times provided
- Offered a non single seat journey via an option they don't know anything about

Option #2 : T3 to city and T6 (what was done)
- No timetable / travel times provided
- On paper looks like a single seat journey to city
- Offered something familiar and they had years ago
- Disguised the fact its not the fastest way to the city

Option #3 : T6 to city and T3 to Bankstown
- No timetable / travel times provided
- Basically Old timetable with M1 instead of T3 from Bankstown
- Really question why even offer this as only two stations on the route would have voted for it.
- Disguised the fact its not the fastest way to the city

Now dispite all this what do we see in the longterm vision, T3 terminating at Lidcombe. As I said before the survey was not worth the paper it was written on as it didn't present the full picture and left it up to them to calculate their fastest options to their destination with an unknown quanitity M1 which was still very new even on NWRL side and in CV so people were not exactly moving freely around the city and now basically since discarded in the govts own future planning.

The extension of M1 to Liverpool if done via a direct green field route will only benefit one station directly on the existing T3, Liverpool. But benefit the stations nearby on Main south, ie Casula to the south, potentially even Glenfiled and a number of stations to the north. The rest still need a practical means to get to work in the city and this is where we discussed before how T3 could operate on the western corridor with additional services to Bankstown instead of the current T6.

[Linto63]

We can argue all day long about the validity of the survey, but the reality is was run and won. Could have, should have, would have discussions are off-topic and getting into crystal balling territory. Should be continued in the relvant thread

[Randomness]

From the 20th, a 4M on the T6 will be replaced by a 4K, due to ETCS testing so I've read. (Unclear on the full circumstances)

This could be the first instance of a 4 car K set in public service perhaps since the T6 closed.

[R44]

This could be the first instance of a 4 car K set in public service perhaps since the T6 closed.

It isn't. They have run the occasional 4K on the Y Link (T5) since 2020. I have caught at least one since that time.

[tonyp]

‘City shaping’: Premier Chris Minns urged to bring back public-private partnerships for transport

Sydney could have five new Metro lines and a new heavy rail extension by 2050 – but with metro construction projects set to fall off in the 2030s, one expert says combining public and private cash to fund construction is the way forward.

James O'Doherty
Daily Telegraph
October 20, 2025 - 12:00AM

Sydney could have had five new Metro lines and a new heavy rail extension by 2050 if Premier Chris Minns acts on the findings of an independent review he commissioned, funded by trillions of dollars in superannuation fund investment.

A major review of Metro construction projects, launched in 2023, even recommended extending the rapid rail network to Randwick – similar to John Bradfield’s visionary masterplan for Sydney’s rail network more than a century ago.

Despite being urged to outline a “financially sustainable” investment program to build new Metro lines over coming decades, Premier Chris Minns is refusing to commit to any new rail links.

It comes as the man who built the Sydney Harbour Tunnel urged the Premier to bring back Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) to fund future infrastructure.

A map of the Metro projects currently being built or planned pales into comparison to the extensive blueprint outlined by Bradfield in 1915.

Bradfield’s vision would have built a rail loop linking Waverley to Waterloo, and a line to Seaforth and Manly.

Today, three new Metro lines are currently being built: the Western Sydney Airport Metro from St Marys to Bradfield, the T3 Metro conversion, and Metro West, from Westmead to Hunter Street in the CBD.

But the Metro construction pipeline is set to fall off a cliff in the 2030s when Metro West is completed in 2030.

The Commonwealth has set aside $1 billion to link Macarthur and Leppington to the Western Sydney Airport, but as The Telegraph revealed last week, this money is being put at risk by a state government go-slow.

Last week, the Premier insisted he could not afford to build anything new.

“What we’re going to do is conclude the largest public transport build in the state’s history,” he told The Telegraph.

He said his government is currently building 25 new Metro stations, which is “more than the entirety of the previous 12 years infrastructure spend”.

Mr Minns has put new projects on ice until the current plans are completed, even suggesting that Sydneysiders are not giving him enough credit for the current workload.

“The public are unaware of the massive amount of money, time, effort, energy, that’s going into these huge public transport connections,” he said.

However, a major review commissioned by Mr Minns in 2023 urged the government to go further, by spending $3bn-$4bn each year on five Metro lines.

The review, launched in 2023, recommended the government “prepare an actionable road map as part of a wider infrastructure investment plan” for new Metro lines.

The plan would have built Metro links from: Bradfield to Bradfield South by 2032, St Marys to Schofields by 2036, Tallawong to Schofields built by 2038, Hunter St to Zetland (and potentially to Randwick) by 2041, and Bradfield South to Oran Park by 2046.

The review said extending Metro West to Zetland would allow for more housing and ease congestion in the CBD.

It said a new “transport spine” could be created extending the Metro east towards Randwick and La Perouse.

That plan was put on ice, and the Minns government instead pursued a new Metro station at Rosehill, and extended the delivery date for Metro West.

“Families across Western Sydney aren’t seeing the investment they were promised,” Liberal Transport spokesman Natalie Ward said.

“This Premier has changed the goalposts and turned his back on the people who elected him.”

Western Sydney Mayors have also called for a new Metro line linking Westmead to the Western Sydney Airport.

Parramatta Lord Mayor Martin Zaiter plans to launch a bipartisan coalition of Western Sydney mayors to lobby the state government for more investment.

“What we’re trying to do is to create a collective voice of Western Sydney (to argue for) the things that we need.”

Meanwhile, business supremo Tony Shepherd has mounted a fresh case for using private sector investment to build new infrastructure, future-proofing Greater Sydney.

It comes as new forecasts, from .id (Informed Decisions), predict Greater Sydney will be home to more than 7 million people by 2050.

In a new paper making the case for “modern PPPs” Mr Shepherd proposed unlocking $4 trillion worth of investment held in Australian Industry Super funds to build new infrastructure.

“The slowdown in PPPs is a wasted opportunity given infrastructure is vital for our prosperity, productivity and welfare and we have ample available funds in Australian Super Funds,” he argued.

Mr Shepherd said that agreements between the government and private equity would help build new infrastructure – like Metro links – despite public budget constraints.

Transport Minister John Graham said the government is “limited by what we can afford”.

“The three Metro projects are city shaping in their scale, and are laying the blueprint for a massive uplift in housing, creating new jobs and communities close to world class public transport,” he said.

[Aurora]

And charge $15 per trip or last a hundred years to recoup billions and billions of dollars, I find this unlikely. Look how it helped the airport line which needed government support to continue.