Rail Observations 2024

[gascoyne]

It's happened again, at Macdonaldtown in weekday arvo peak - https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/maj ... 5f4zr.html

[boronia]

Reported elsewhere that first of the new regional carriages were unloaded at Pt Kembla today.
They will be taken to Dubbo by road

[swtt]

Not really, back then before the Libs came in and blew up the joint,

Blew up the joint in what ways? From a customer persepctive, there's only been increases to train services everywhere since they took over in 2011.

Unlike the previous Labor crew who were in power for 16 years, with their only attempt at increasing services being in the failed 1996 timetable. Otherwise, it was just cuts after that, culminating in the "more reliable" timetables for 2004/2005 but left a sour 30 minute frequency everywhere in the off peak for a lot of lines. They didn't even make an attempt at increasing services in the first ECRL integration timetable - and left the three ECRL stations with only a 30 min service in the off peak towards the city (though it was 15 min to Chatswood with every second train terminating at Chatswood).

It wasn't until 2013 when the ECRL had a full day 15 min service all the way into the city during the weekday at all hours, and 2017 when all weekend services were also increased to 15 min everywhere.

[tonyp]

Blew up the joint in what ways? From a customer persepctive, there's only been increases to train services everywhere since they took over in 2011.

Unlike the previous Labor crew who were in power for 16 years, with their only attempt at increasing services being in the failed 1996 timetable. Otherwise, it was just cuts after that, culminating in the "more reliable" timetables for 2004/2005 but left a sour 30 minute frequency everywhere in the off peak for a lot of lines. They didn't even make an attempt at increasing services in the first ECRL integration timetable - and left the three ECRL stations with only a 30 min service in the off peak towards the city (though it was 15 min to Chatswood with every second train terminating at Chatswood).

It wasn't until 2013 when the ECRL had a full day 15 min service all the way into the city during the weekday at all hours, and 2017 when all weekend services were also increased to 15 min everywhere.

No no no, you need to jump into Jo's social media to be educated. The correct narrative is that the Coalition destroyed public transport over the last decade by introducing more services, inducing a huge patronage increase until covid struck, building metro and light rail and increasing bus services. But it's OK, Jo and Minnsy are going to fix it all. They've started by adding to the cost and timeframe of West Metro and no doubt more destruct...., improvement is on the way.

[BAMBAM]

I wasn’t taking about introducing more regular services where they blew it up, I was talking about the management and operations side where they moved everything into one big building to fix and reduce minimise disruptions only for it to back fire and causes more delays that we’ve experienced lately.

From a customer perspective, you spend money on rebranding and reorganisation all brands under one umbrella and still couldn’t deliver excellent service. Yes they did the metro, yes they added extra services but let’s not forget their lies when Glady said we couldn’t build trains here which was a lie, Andrew Constance saying there will be a guard on the new intercity trains then back tracking and not having guards, as well David Elliot called all train crew and workers terrorist when it was his department that shut down all trains for a whole day without warning. May i add the recent bus privatisation hasn’t gone well either. One step forward, two steps back.

[tonyp]

I wasn’t taking about introducing more regular services where they blew it up, I was talking about the management and operations side where they moved everything into one big building to fix and reduce minimise disruptions only for it to back fire and causes more delays that we’ve experienced lately.

From a customer perspective, you spend money on rebranding and reorganisation all brands under one umbrella and still couldn’t deliver excellent service. Yes they did the metro, yes they added extra services but let’s not forget their lies when Glady said we couldn’t build trains here which was a lie, Andrew Constance saying there will be a guard on the new intercity trains then back tracking and not having guards, as well David Elliot called all train crew and workers terrorist when it was his department that shut down all trains for a whole day without warning. May i add the recent bus privatisation hasn’t gone well either. One step forward, two steps back.

I accept that restructuring agencies rarely has a positive outcome. Governments have a long history of doing that, with the same inevitable outcomes. At least we've been spared a new colour scheme (so far).

[alleve]

David Elliot called all train crew and workers terrorist when it was his department that shut down all trains for a whole day without warning.

That was honestly one of the most disgraceful things I've seen in a long time. The entire NIF affair was a display of woeful incompetence but shutting down the network, lying about it and then calling hard working people terrorists for cheap points in the papers is so unbelievably disgusting. Elliott should be ashamed

[Linto63]

No no no, you need to jump into Jo's social media to be educated.

As opposed to former transport minister Andrew Constance offering his pearls of wisdoms. The outgoing government did leave a litany of problems for its successors to address, inconvenient as its supporters may find it.

[tonyp]

No no no, you need to jump into Jo's social media to be educated.

As opposed to former transport minister Andrew Constance offering his pearls of wisdoms. The outgoing government did leave a litany of problems for its successors to address, inconvenient as its supporters may find it.

Constance was sometimes outside the square, but very sound. What litany of problems?

[Linto63]

Constance was sometimes outside the square, but very sound.

He was batshit crazy at times...Ferry McFerryface etc.

What litany of problems?

Problems the new government inherited included:
*Aging bus fleet while dozens of electric buses remained parked up due to poorly thought out bus ev project
*U-Go Mobility region 10 contract
*Ongoing problems with CAF trams
*Emerald II class ferries that regularly had to be taken out of service
*D set trains parked up for years because of ham-fisted approach to consulting transport workers
*Woeful procurement of XPT replacement fleet

Some were probably down to poor planning and execution by the bureaucracy, but as transport ministers want to take the credit for things that go right, they have to take the hit for things that go wrong.

[Transtopic]

At least we've been spared a new colour scheme (so far).

Like the previous government did when they came to power?

I have never been a fan of the orange branding of Sydney Trains and its "T" designation. There's not enough contrast in the signage with the lightly coloured orange background and white lettering which can be difficult to read sometimes. I preferred the previous CityRail signage with a dark blue background and white lettering where there was more of a contrast in highlighting the lettering.

I also lament the replacement of the pictograms, which is a universal language and instantly recognisable, and their replacement with letters to signify the transport mode. For a visitor, whether foreign or domestic, who would know what "L" means for example? "T" could mean train or tram. If they insist that the identification should be by an alphabetical letter, then what about "S"(S-Bahn) for the suburban and Intercity network and "U" (U-Bahn) or "M" for metro, which is common in Europe? However that doesn't help foreign tourists much who may not be well versed in the English language.

While I don't see the need for changing the branding of Sydney Trains, Sydney Metro and NSW Trainlink, I wouldn't be averse to changing the colouring of the signage and reintroduction of pictograms.

[boronia]

Talking of rebranding:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/poi ... 5f5pp.html

[Transtopic]

David Elliot called all train crew and workers terrorist when it was his department that shut down all trains for a whole day without warning.

That was honestly one of the most disgraceful things I've seen in a long time. The entire NIF affair was a display of woeful incompetence but shutting down the network, lying about it and then calling hard working people terrorists for cheap points in the papers is so unbelievably disgusting. Elliott should be ashamed

Agree. It's also conveniently overlooked that the Fair Work Commission had upheld the union's right to continue protected industrial action in the face of evidence presented to the court. The then government was also being belligerent in insisting that resolution of the NIF standoff should be tied to negotiations for a new Workplace Agreement, whereas the union wanted the issues to be treated separately, which is not unreasonable.

[tonyp]

I also lament the replacement of the pictograms, which is a universal language and instantly recognisable, and their replacement with letters to signify the transport mode. For a visitor, whether foreign or domestic, who would know what "L" means for example? "T" could mean train or tram. If they insist that the identification should be by an alphabetical letter, then what about "S"(S-Bahn) for the suburban and Intercity network and "U" (U-Bahn) or "M" for metro, which is common in Europe? However that doesn't help foreign tourists much who may not be well versed in the English language.

S and U would mean nothing to anybody outside Germany. I've also been uncomfortable with L for trams, but that's because they insist on calling it light rail and they also obviously want to keep the T for trains. I'm sure that there were many internal committee meetings and working groups about it at the time. What throws me is the suburban line numbers, being from a generation that calls them North Shore Line, Western Line etc etc! I find myself regularly having to look them up. Then there are the ferries. Thank goodness there are only three tram lines.

[boxythingy]

Shocking air quality on rail network threatens passengers and staff
February 20, 2024 — 5.00am
Warning: Sydney’s underground train system is a health hazard. Passengers and staff are being exposed to poisonous air containing more than twice the safe daily limits for particle pollution. And of further worry, authorities and state governments have kept the information secret for years.

The potentially serious health threat occurs when trains brake and accelerate when they arrive and depart underground platforms and friction between the carriage, wheels, tracks and brakes create tiny metal particles, known as PM2.5 and PM10. These then become dust or a gas that coagulates and drifts around underground stations and tunnels, being constantly stirred by passing services so they end up being freely inhaled by commuters and railway staff.

A Herald investigation tested air pollution and gas concentrations at 16 train stations above and below ground on the Sydney train network and the newer Sydney Metro Northwest, and uncovered an alarming presence of unsafe air. The worst reading came from platform 25 at Central Station, where we recorded PM2.5 readings averaged over a minute of 133 µg/m3. This is more than five times the recommended daily limit of 25 µg/m3 adopted by the NSW government. On platforms one and three at Town Hall we recorded PM2.5 levels more than double those at the closest outdoor air quality monitoring station on the days we tested. Air quality was even worse at deeper station platforms at Central, Wynyard, Macquarie University, Epping and North Ryde.

Sydney’s dirty little secret: polluted underground air revealed
Transport for NSW said it had “no significant concerns” raised about air quality and dust monitoring, and air quality management took place across the underground network. But University of Wollongong researcher Hugh Forehead warned workers – station staff on Metro and city circle lines work shifts lasting up to 12 hours – who are continually exposed to air pollution, were at greatest risk of potential health impacts. Also, if commuters spent extended periods on train platforms, as many do during service delays, their risk increased.

Air quality is a problem in underground train stations globally, from London to New York and Paris, as tiny particles containing metals such as iron and copper, as well as carbon and mineral oxides generated from wheels, drift down tunnels. Many cities monitor and report on tunnel dust. In Seoul, South Korea they publish live levels of pollution at train stations, and in Britain, where millions are spent cleaning train tunnels, data is published annually.

UNSW environmental epidemiologist Professor Bin Jalaludin believes publishing underground platform pollution levels, as in other countries, would be sensible. “Air pollution in train tunnels has largely been ignored, while road tunnel pollution is widely discussed,” he said. “We give people warnings when entering a road tunnel – wind your windows up and recirculate the air within the car because you don’t want the exhaust coming in while you’re driving. There’s no reason not to apply warnings on train platforms.”

But it does not happen in Sydney. There is no public information about air quality in stations. Staff said there had been no warnings or briefings given to maintenance workers or station officials about air quality, despite the dangers being known. Both Metro and Sydney Trains refused to divulge any details or data about air quality in underground train networks, despite experts warning of potential health impacts for both passengers and workers exposed to underground pollution.

Transport Minister Jo Haylen said she took the Herald’s findings very seriously and has demanded a briefing from bureaucrats. She should act in the public interest immediately. When it comes to air quality, our underground network is a real Wild West with no independent oversight or proper, transparent regulatory regime.

We don't care because we pretend pollution is a developing economy phenomenon

[ScaniaGrenda]

Parliament petitioned to buy old mine line to revive commuter service to Cessnock
https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/stor ... l/?cs=7573

A petition signed by almost 3000 people has been presented to Parliament requesting that the state government acquire the disused Maitland to Cessnock line, which is currently owned by Aurizon and Yancoal, and reuse it as a public transport corridor.

The population of the regional centres is predicted to explode in the coming decades, with both Maitland and Cessnock local government areas expected to add another 50,000 people each by 2041, making the combined population more than 250,000.

The plan is estimated to cost between $100 million to $200 million, and would establish eight stations along the growth corridor between Maitland and Cessnock, including stops at Gillieston Heights, Kurri Kurri, Abermain and Bellbird.

Cessnock MP Clayton Barr presented the petition to the NSW Parliament and said the NSW Transport Department's long-term strategy included returning a rail service to Cessnock.

"That's in there in black and white, and has been for years regardless of which party has been in power," he said.

Mr Barr stopped short of openly supporting the project, noting the state's dire financial situation. But the MP said the proposal deserved to be properly investigated.

"I'd like to think we can get some money set aside for a serious look at this," he said.

"Call it seed funding or planning funding, but enough to do the business case and actually take a serious look at it would be handy."

Cessnock rail group's Andrew Fenwick has made an official submission to the state government, calling for $10 million in the upcoming budget to develop a business case and design the first phase of the project, so that delivery funding could be confirmed in the 2025-26 budget.

"To be honest, you couldn't have planned the route better, there's this perfect rail corridor that goes from village to village," Mr Fenwick said.

"It already has 50,000 people within walking distance of the proposed stations. It ticks all the government's own boxes."

Rail projects typically cost up to $20,000 per person in the catchment area, Mr Fenwick said, but the Maitland-Cessnock proposal would be between $2000 and $4000 per person.

"You won't find a cheaper one," he said.

However, it will only remain a low-cost option if acted on quickly. Yancoal is in the process of rehabilitating its Austar mine near Bellbird, which includes ripping up the rail line.

The NSW government is also in the process of replacing the state's regional rolling stock, which means the Maitland-Cessnock line could be serviced with the surplus carriages.

"The timing is very important on this, if we wait this could blow out from a $150-million plan to more than $1 billion," Mr Fenwick said.

Mr Barr noted the time pressure and said that one way or another, the growing population needed to be supported by more transport infrastructure.

"We're either going to have to spend a massive amount of money on road upgrades or a massive amount on public transport," he said.

Despite the proposal aligning with the government's own plans - the Maitland-Cessnock corridor has been flagged in five state government strategies going back several years - Mr Fenwick said the community was sceptical of government support.

"When you dig deeper into that, there is a concern that because we are such a safe seat, we won't have money spent here," he said.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's great to see the community definitely wants passenger rail to return to Cessnock however I do hold strong concerns much like NSW HSR it'll ever see the light of day. We're more interested in sitting on opptunity to act and then another 15-20 years down the line later realising we really should have done it ages ago when it was cheaper and then putting it in the too hard basket. I've simply practically given up any hope seeing any expansions or improvements for our regional rail services, the state just does not care or want to cater for those outside of Sydney.

Having looked at where the current existent but disused rail track to Cessnock runs along, The rail line is definitely positioned in areas that would be within walkable distance of housing & businesses should the stations be rightfully placed.

[Linto63]

With the bus service that more or less parallels the railway line operating only hourly, is there really any demand?

[tonyp]

With the bus service that more or less parallels the railway line operating only hourly, is there really any demand?

Perhaps the patronage is low because the buses are hourly. Jack them up to 15 minutes and see what happens.

[ScaniaGrenda]

With the bus service that more or less parallels the railway line operating only hourly, is there really any demand?

As Tonyp pointed out, the existing bus service is only Hourly & less on weekends which wouldn't motivate many people to catch it into Maitland, If then a Cessnock to Newcastle Interchange rail service could be introduced without having to swap over at Maitland for a then connecting train (because the brains that be will insist this is workable, all with a wonderful 15 or 30 minute gap to get said connecting train) I think this could exactly work.

In a perfect world, you would also have another secondary accessible transport method to still get people around, let's say the 164 / 166 to Maitland is cancelled, delayed, the next service is sometime off or finished running for the day but one still wants to get to Maitland or vice versa, well of course this train service is the next best solution without having to fork out for an expensive cab fare.

That and a bus is constantly stopping whether that be picking up passengers / alighting, traffic, traffic signals etc, rail is quicker although we'd also need to factor in exactly where people are headed. Let's also not forget this isn't just about today but also planning for the future in mind as the article points out (yet another thing I see glossed over so many times on this board). Sooner something is acted on, the better. Better than seeing nothing done.

The line is currently still used to date for storing freight hoppers which I observe as part of my frequent travels to the area for work, while the line may be privately owned it's a waste seeing the track that is still within good purpose left to rot. The community wants to see changes, therefor the politicians should be doing their job and and telling the owner to make use of it or we'll consider reclaiming it.

Of course, that won't happen, that's all fantasy, it'll just be left to grow weeds and grass on, go beyond state of repair and nature will continue to take course.

[Linto63]

Even if patronage increased four-fold to match the increased service level (which it wouldn't), the business case for the rail service would still be poor. This is just one of the pie in the sky ideas to introduce / reintroduce a regional railway service that periodically surface. Nothing ever comes of them.

[Glen]

At least we can hope that they don't let the rail corridor disappear like they did at Ropes Creek.

[Bus 400]

Since just after 7pm, trains have been at a standstill on the T4 due to urgent track repairs somewhere between Sutherland Station & where the Cronin line branches off.

Trains are going now, leading to interesting frequencies. 2 trains currently timetabled to go to Kiama are under 10 minutes apart.

I'm going to assume the signal testing on the Cronulla line will be cancelled tonight. Otherwise, they have 30 minutes to get drivers & trains back to Cronulla for the sign off & morning trains.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

[Transtopic]

Perhaps all of these recent infrastructure failures are a direct result of the leaving the Sydney Trains network to rot with the lack of adequate maintenance, let alone upgrading, while funds have been redirected to the cost blowouts on the new metro lines. It's a huge network and needs more than just peanuts thrown at it. If only a fraction of the funds for the new metro lines had been invested in keeping the exiting network up to scratch, then these disrupting incidents would be less common. It's a flawed strategy to suggest that the metro lines, whether or not they're warranted, will relieve the burden of the upkeep of the existing network when it will remain the dominant system for decades to come.

[Glen]

Every line in Sydney has been closed regularly on weekends for the last 40 years, more so than any other system I know.

They must have been doing something during all of those possessions (I hope).

[tonyp]

Every line in Sydney has been closed regularly on weekends for the last 40 years, more so than any other system I know.

They must have been doing something during all of those possessions (I hope).

I think both of us recall how many times we were promised over the years that a better service would come out of it and that never materialised and it became worse and slower. I remember when I was working closely with the railways in the 1980s that they told us they were losing a million dollars a day and couldn't make any headway. I can't imagine what it's like today, especially with their labour costs.

Constance said not long ago that the previous government put over $2 billion into the suburban system and they never saw any results for it. It's not hard to see that governments of both sides would see the suburban system as a bottomless money pit and turn to favour metro as the way forward. There's now several decades of bitter experience that throwing more money into the suburban system doesn't produce any real benefit, but governments still have to grit their teeth and keep funding it because it's still essential to move people around.

I think the biggest surprise for many loyal supporters of the suburban system is that they thought a Labor government would back off on the metro program and move behind the suburban system, but they haven't, other than catching up on maintenance. I could see that coming a mile off because Labor were the ones (in their previous government) who started the metro ball rolling. They're aware of the broader issues too, just that they have the RTBU around their necks whereas the Coalition was able to ignore that albatross and push ahead.

The long term outcome is going to be continuing extension of the metro system, whichever government is in office, because of its overwhelmimg benefits. Just that progress will be faster under a Coalition government as the better money managers.