20 Years Since Liverpool-Parramatta Transitway Commenced

[jpp42]

I do find it ironic that MFF seems to breeze through the journey while government-procured boats sometimes struggle. I put this down to the leaner, more flexible management of a small private operation being able to choose the best boats for the service.

Interestingly, it appears M[anl]y Fast Ferries will now be subsidised on Opal in direct opposition to the Transdev-operated ferries. https://www.myfastferry.com.au/2022/12/ ... ast-ferry/
https://www.northernbeachesadvocate.com ... gets-opal/

I haven't seen the full details but the article describes "the inclusion of the Opal cap and Opal discount on the fast ferry service" - however it's not clear if the government is paying per service and collecting all revenue as they do with Sydney Ferries and buses etc, or whether it's a hybrid model like used with the Lane Cove and F10 service.

I suspect this deal is only made possible by the fact that they're under NRMA ownership now and probably have a lot more government connections than the previous owner, Bass and Flinders. Bass and Flinders even lost the primary wharf access contract for a while (when Global Traders / "Sydney Fast Ferries" was running those yellow cats, and MFF had to use public wharves).

[Fleet Lists]

Paying extra for the Manly Fast Ferry will soon be a thing of the past for regular public transport users as the government tries to shore up a minister's seat.

The privately run service, which costs an adult $10.20 for a trip between Circular Quay and Manly, will be included under the $50-a-week Opal cap from mid-2023.

The way I interpret this is that for single trips the fare will still be higher for the MFF but that regular travelers will benefit from the $50 cap. I suspect that the $2.50 gold card fare will also not apply.

\As I posted earlier, I believe that it will only be a restricted Opal availability.

[Linto63]

...it's not clear if the government is paying per service and collecting all revenue as they do with Sydney Ferries and buses etc, or whether it's a hybrid model like used with the Lane Cove and F10 service.

More the latter, MFF will still be a franchise (i.e. it will bear the revenue risk), and there will be a revenue apportion formula that will account for it carrying other passengers for free and losing revenue from its daily commuters, but in turn abstracting patronage from the F1 service.

[Fleet Lists]

The F1 Manly service will revert to an hourly (2x) Freshwater service from 19/12, with Emeralds, to provide a nominal 15 minute service.

No new timetable ever appeared for this unlike previous years when a summer timetable was issued.
I assume it will revert to the pre 19/12 timetable after Australia Day quoting the summer timetable advice "From 19 December 2022 to 26 January 2023 there will be extra F1 Manly services.".

[Fleet Lists]

The F1 Manly service will revert to an hourly (2x) Freshwater service from 19/12, with Emeralds, to provide a nominal 15 minute service.

No new timetable ever appeared for this unlike previous years when a summer timetable was issued.
I assume it will revert to the pre 19/12 timetable after Australia Day quoting the summer timetable advice "From 19 December 2022 to 26 January 2023 there will be extra F1 Manly services.".

There is a new timetable from today https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 230130.pdf
I have not checked it out.

[boronia]

It appears to be the same as the pre-holiday schedule, with a Freshwater every two hours laid over the 20 minute Emerald service, rather than being integrated into it.

On a separate note, MFF was recently advertising for more staff, from GPHs to ferry masters, and some operations/admin staff.

[gascoyne]

Engine failure on Clontarf . see https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/new ... 5cikt.html

[tonyp]

Engine failure on Clontarf . see https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/new ... 5cikt.html

Japanese Yanmar engines, excellent reputation - forwarned in case somebody on the Labor side comes up with the usual knee-jerk comments. Things can go wrong on any product and we don't know the cause yet.

[Randomness]

I suppose they’ll put an Emerald 1 on it as per usual. Makes you think about the need for the Mk 2s extra stability based features.

[boronia]

Emerald 1 until the swell comes up and they'll cancel the services.

[Linto63]

A Freshwater is operating morning peak services today, normally the first service is the 0930 ex Circular Quay.

[In Transit]

What time was that? Looking at Anytrip, all the usual peak services ran, and at Emerald timings. No sign of a Freshwater until the usual 0930.

[boronia]

Both ferries were sighted near Manly just before 10 AM. A little later, the Freshwater was reported at CQ and Collaroy back at Balmain.

[boronia]

This comment on a FB page from a former ferry master:

“Clontarf” update.
Further to my post yesterday morning regarding Monday nights catastrophic (adjective: causing sudden and very great harm or destruction) failure of the Port Main Engine in French owned Transdev’s Chinese built Gen II Emerald, “Clontarf”, those who have more technical ability than me, are of the opinion, her No 5 piston grabbed and seized in the liner, at the top of her stroke, causing the No 5 Conrod to part company with her piston and continue rotating at around 2,000 RPM (Revs Per minute) in company with the vessels crankshaft.
The crankcase inspection door was smashed off. Her errant conrod was found lying in the sump. It is now possible to look through the engine block, from one side to the other.
Large chunks of Japan’s finest steel was flung around “Clontarf’s” port engine room. At extremely high speed.
Most blades on the Engine Room ventilation fans were destroyed by flying debris.
Hot lubricating oil sprayed everywhere.
If the On Board Engineer, an extremely competent Crewman, had been conducting an Engine Room inspection at the time, he could have been killed.
This is not a joke.
You may well ask, “Why would a quality Japanese built Yanmar engine destroy itself?”
Well. Any competent organisation would specify a vessel to be designed and built with main engines that could maintain its service speed while being operated at 70% -80% of its maximum power.
Not our Transdev.
If they specified an engine of 750 kws (kilowatts) or over, the NSCV rules say they would require an Engineer with an MED I certificate of Competency.
For 749kws, only a MED II Certificate of Competency is required.
So Transdev ordered all their Emerald Class ferries, both Gen I & Gen II, with 749kw Yanmar engines.
To maintain their service speed, and keep to the timetable, as written by Transdev and approved by Transport for NSW, Masters have to operate their vessels at 100% most of the day.
This is particularly so on the heavier Chinese built Gen II Emeralds.
They are run “flat out like a lizard drinking.”
All day.
The correctly specified engines on Freshwater, 1st Fleet, River Cat, Supercat & Harbourcat vessels run at 70 – 80% and last, with maintenance, for around 30,000 hours.
Poor old, or nearly new, “Clontarf” only had 5,600 hours on her port engine when she cried “enough!”
I predict, this will not be the first early detonation of a Gen II Emerald engine.
If Transdev cared about their Crews, they would insist their Engineers do not inspect their engine rooms while the Vessel is running at full speed.

[tonyp]

This is a case where TfNSW, as owner of the vessels, should have acted with far more due diligence in overseeing both the original specification and, later, the timetable, having regard to the specification. As with trams, they probably lack the necessary in-house expertise to exercise the necessary oversight.

[Randomness]

With running at full power being an issue, they'd want to reduce the engine speed. That would bring the timetable yet closer to Freshwater days (maybe 26-27min rather than 22). Don't suppose that TD can stick some of their numerous tram speed restriction signs on bouys as yet another cost cutting meaure .

Wouldn't be surprised if we get promised a new batch of ferries just before election time. Mk2s can then do inner harbour runs where they probably should belong.

[Special_K]

16 February 2023 marks 20 years since the opening of the Route T80 Liverpool to Parramatta Transitway (LPT) .

Operated by a State Transit Subsidiary, Western Sydney Buses, the initial fourteen bus gas fleet were based at the Westbus Bonnyrig Depot adjacent to the LPT. While the Mercedes-Benz O-405NH were touted as being environmentally friendly, they had to be refueled at Ryde depot owing to the lack of CNG facilities in the west.

With its modern accessible fleet,sleek T-way stations, service frequency, real time information, on board bus announcements, security monitoring, bus priority and government fare structure, the LPT was an instant winner. On opening day, much of the 31km route was still under construction but it took a while for other road users to get used to the almost instant green applied to the T80 with a few accidents and many near misses in the early days.

As GPS was still in the development stage, real time information for customers and bus position for the control room (part of the STA radio room) and depot, was supplied by a system of in road loop detectors that combined to activate bus location and bus priority systems. The same bus priority resolve was not applied to the North West T-way which, today, sees buses waiting for entire light cycles at the numerous Old Windsor Road intersections.

The LPT fare structure and service provider contracts became the base model on which the subsequent updated Metropolitan Bus Contracts were structered.

Fast forward to today and we see a totally different diesel bus fleet based at Transit Systems' Smithfield depot and a vastly improved service including double deck and articulated vehicles.

Congratulations to the LPT on 20 years of sterling service to Liverpool, Parramatta and beyond!

[tonyp]

I watched the Transport Planning team, headed by Rob Caldwell, designing this T way. They planned the gradients and corners so that it could be converted to light rail in the future, if desired. I don't know that the density along the line justifies light rail yet, but the introduction of artics and deckers suggests that patronage is on the rise.

[Geo101]

so that it could be converted to light rail in the future, if desired. I don't know that the density along the line justifies light rail yet, but the introduction of artics and deckers suggests that patronage is on the rise.

Tony, yes, the Tways are a success, however the chances of them being converted to a tramway are a long way off!! Even during the peak hours, there is no more than one service every 5 minutes?

https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 230127.pdf

[moa999]

Tend to agree (but much like Adelaide O-Bahn and Brisbane Busways), perfect routes for battery electric trolley buses with smaller batteries, but the ability to charge up on these central sections.

[tonyp]

Tend to agree (but much like Adelaide O-Bahn and Brisbane Busways), perfect routes for battery electric trolley buses with smaller batteries, but the ability to charge up on these central sections.

Mention the T word here in Australia and bus people have conniptions. Yes they're ideal for fixed routes like this, nowadays with the ability to run off wire for variations or extensions of the route if necessary. The Adelaide O Bahn even has foundations for stanchions for OHW. We'll have to wait a while though till the penny drops here about the capacity limitations of the full battery bus, the only other alternative being to stop to top up during service - or whatever else emerges in the future.

[stajourneyman]

The 0405NH gas Mercs were utilised on this service for only a few years before being replaced with 1500 series Volvo B12BLEs, which were far more suitable.

With the gas Mercs,there was a perpetual trail of them trundling to and from both Ryde and Kingsgrove depots for refuelling day and night.

Given that they really only had about four to six hours worth of CNG on board, their refuelling was apparently built into the shifts with drivers running special from Parramatta to Ryde depot, thence back to Parra for their next scheduled trip.

That would've been around 60 - 75 minutes round trip each time.

In reality, it was totally impractical, but hey, it made the Government look good .... new T-way, new buses, lowfloor, running on gas ..

[tonyp]

With the gas Mercs,there was a perpetual trail of them trundling to and from both Ryde and Kingsgrove depots for refuelling day and night.

They were softening us up for battery-electric buses

The present battery buses would be good for 10 or 11 trips, so one bus wouldn't last from dawn till late evening. I can see chargers being set up at the termini for high capacity electric buses. Do the diesels stay on the job all day?

[Campbelltown busboy]

The 0405NH gas Mercs were utilised on this service for only a few years before being replaced with 1500 series Volvo B12BLEs, which were far more suitable.

B12BLEs 1535-1551 were ordered with programmed next stop DVA announcements for the Parramatta-Liverpool T way which was disconnected about a decade ago

[Merc1107]

With the gas Mercs,there was a perpetual trail of them trundling to and from both Ryde and Kingsgrove depots for refuelling day and night.

Given that they really only had about four to six hours worth of CNG on board, their refuelling was apparently built into the shifts with drivers running special from Parramatta to Ryde depot, thence back to Parra for their next scheduled trip.

What's the topography of that Transitway and the routes those buses serviced? That seems like an unusually short range.

The same buses in Perth were capable of 12-19hrs work with full tanks (assuming you don't run lower than 50bar, using 12-15bar/hr), and a couple in their latter days were even more frugal than that (not that they were used much outside of peak).

I'm lead to believe, including by people who did so, that you could run those buses down to practically zero bar in the tanks, at least before the ones out West were retrofitted with fuel injection.