Bus Observations 2023

[Linto63]

Nonetheless it is a superseded document, it will no longer be in the top draw of the transport minister, the 2022 one will be. That the new document omits a date is a tacit admission that it will not be complete by 2056 as the previous one suggested.

[tonyp]

Nonetheless it is a superseded document, it will no longer be in the top draw of the transport minister, the 2022 one will be. That the new document omits a date is a tacit admission that it will not be complete by 2056 as the previous one suggested.

You're missing the point that the plan hasn't changed. Dates are ballpark figures that can vary with the priorities and finances of the government of the time.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

I was browsing through the STA Fleet Lists and I noticed that bus 2080 was registered on regional MO plates as 1591 MO between March and September 2017, despite being based at Burwood at the time - why wasn't it registered on the m/o plates that other STA vehicles were re-registered on?

Something a bit more current as well - 2351 ST with KDNB North Sydney has yellow ST plates instead of the white and blue ones, perhaps 2351 received new plates post-takeover as a replacement for damaged or lost plates?

[boronia]

Seems someone in T-JH or TfNSW has "lost" the Rte 309 for the rest of this week.

The next scheduled service from PoBo is 04:15 Saturday, acc to trip planner.

[boronia]

I was browsing through the STA Fleet Lists and I noticed that bus 2080 was registered on regional MO plates as 1591 MO between March and September 2017, despite being based at Burwood at the time - why wasn't it registered on the m/o plates that other STA vehicles were re-registered on?

Something a bit more current as well - 2351 ST with KDNB North Sydney has yellow ST plates instead of the white and blue ones, perhaps 2351 received new plates post-takeover as a replacement for damaged or lost plates?

If plates are lost or damaged, it is usual to just grab any number that is readily available as replacements.

[stupid_girl]

Why are some school bus routes shown as operating today? (such as 291 from Frenchs Forest)

[Fleet Lists]

Because it shows a term end in 2024 instead of 2023. There appear to be quite a few timetables around with this type of problem

[busbum]

Concerning the ex STA Merc 0500 gas buses some of these must be getting close to the 15yr gas tank replacement or swap around. Will these be the same as the 0405 gas buses and be retired early?

[Merc1107]

I'd love to know where this "15yr replacement" thing comes from... CNG tanks are periodically inspected at regular intervals until the bus is either decommissioned, or the tanks expire and force retirement. They're also not the same age as the bus - the numerous tanks that makeup the total fuel capacity might be several months older than the buses, or newer, if exceptional circumstances necessitated replacement at a young age.

Of course if one or more tanks in a set are failing those safety inspections, and cannot be used for their full lifespan, that complicates matters; the solution to this scenario will be dependent on cost against remaining service life.

[Swift]

I just hope the hassles associated with CNG were worth it. I have video of various buses tackling the hill on Barker St, Kensington outside UNSW and the OC500LE CNGs were the worst, even the O405NH CNG did marginally better with their more tractable engines.
The first series Volvo B12BLE was the polar opposite flinging up there like it wasn't there.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

I've found the Euro V batch of B12BLEs to have more power, from what I gather the first batch of Custom CB60 bodied B12BLEs had a built-in function that limited the power output of the engine or something.
As for the gas buses, how much horsepower do the CNG powered L113CRBs, O405NHs and O500LEs have? My knowledge is that the O405NHs were rated for 215 horsepower and the O500LEs for 230, however I've also come across sources that rate the STA O500LEs at 250 horsepower. Certainly doesn't feel like it when you're onboard one of them though - even those 130hp double decker buses the Sydney Bus Museum runs for their vintage tours go up hills faster.

[Merc1107]

The OCs are incredibly dependent on good ignition components, a working turbo, a gearbox program that allows the engine to perform (rather than torque-restricting and generally strangling the poor engine, particularly in lower gears with the torque converter unlocked) and maintenance not attempting to diddle with the tune in a bid to save fuel. Get all that right and they're surprisingly competent buses. My personal experience was the diesel equivalent, both Euro 3 & 5, were on par performance-wise - and aside from missing the "two-faced" gas engine, had many of the same (frustrating) handling deficiencies.

The O405NH CNG has the same power/torque spec as the older O405 high floor diesel (238hp, unsure of torque). The heavier low floor body plus weight of gas tanks (assuming Sydney didn't go with the lightweight composite tanks) would hamper performance.

OC is 252hp, a lot more torque, with respect to the aforementioned conditions...

No idea on the Scanias. I've heard they had great stats on paper, but predating fuel injection or even what you might call a "computer carby", you're stuck with an engine physically going out of tune and being subject to changes in gas quality on top of everything else.

Certainly doesn't feel like it when you're onboard one of them though - even those 130hp double decker buses the Sydney Bus Museum runs for their vintage tours go up hills faster.

What is the top speed of the old deckers, though?

I think that is a big contributor to the "horsepower war" you see on modern buses - excluding buses used predominantly on freeways or busways, is it really necessary for a bus to be capable of more than about 80, if not less? Fun as it may be to steer a rigid with 300+ horses behind it, there is really no need for such power in a city bus; it only encourages increased stupidity and more racing against tight schedules from a workforce who already struggle with basic manoeuvring and roadcraft techniques.

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

The UK got something right - from what I know many British double deckers are rated for 230 horsepower.

I have heard it said that Sydney requires more powerful vehicles due to the hilly road conditions, but few operating environments in Sydney are more hilly than the North West. Yet Hillsbus has plenty of K230UBs and K94UBs rated for 230 horsepower operating in the aptly named 'Hills District', and they don't seem to be struggling too much. I hopped onboard a K230UB on the 610X, which spends around half an hour on the motorways, and it had no trouble keeping up with the 100km/h speed limit on the M2 (I actually tracked it going at 105km/h in the Norfolk Tunnel on Anytrip). Even when decelerating after a solid 20 minute sprint, the K230UBs were much quieter than the K280UB tri-axles, which have infamously loud engine fans.

What really intrigues me - if the B7RLE is rated for 290hp, why is it that basically every operator selected the 320hp version of the B8RLE over the 290hp version? (not to mention the 330hp B8RLEs for the STA). One would think that an operator would choose the more economical engine provided it does the job.

And if a bus is caught speeding or running a red light, what becomes of the driver? I haven't ever seen or heard of a bus being pulled over by cops mid-service.

[LB608]

What is wrong with 2024 observations ?

[boronia]

It is continuing a discussion started in 2023.

New observations can go into 2024.

[Bus 400]

And if a bus is caught speeding or running a red light, what becomes of the driver? I haven't ever seen or heard of a bus being pulled over by cops mid-service.

In the last year or so there was dashcam footage of a bus going through a red light in front of a Police car & getting pulled over just down the road.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

[Linto63]

Pretty sure the Green Square end of the 320 route is still not open as yet, but have seen a couple of route 320 buses with "Green Square" as the destination of late.

All of my observations in the past few weeks have had Zetland as the destination, must have been a temporary thing.

[iamthouth]

Why are some school bus routes shown as operating today? (such as 291 from Frenchs Forest)

291 operates in school vacation as well as it is for Aruma Disability Services, not a normal school service.

[stupid_girl]

Why are some school bus routes shown as operating today? (such as 291 from Frenchs Forest)

291 operates in school vacation as well as it is for Aruma Disability Services, not a normal school service.

Then, why isn't it classified as a public bus route?

[pgt]

291 operates in school vacation as well as it is for Aruma Disability Services, not a normal school service.

Then, why isn't it classified as a public bus route?

Educated guess is that "school services" would be for the use of those going to/from the facility it serves (typically those attending the institution/s served by that specific route), though there's probably a more formal definition.
If it were a public bus route, then it would be open to any fare-paying passenger along that route (subject to any trip restrictions).

[boronia]

291 operates in school vacation as well as it is for Aruma Disability Services, not a normal school service.

Then, why isn't it classified as a public bus route?

It does appear to be classified as a public bus route. It has a regular route number and the tt makes no mention of it being a school service.

[Fleet Lists]

Yet its link page https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... /291/37291 shows it as classified as "School Buses"
The timetable itself shows its currency date as "Valid: 18 Dec 2023 - 17 Dec2024 " where the first date is correct but the finishing date seems rather strange as normally a current timetable does not show a finishing date unless there is already a replacement timetable available.
But this not restricted to this route. Normal routes such as 271 show the same finishing date.
Such routes would be expected to be replaced with the next school timetables as from 1 February or thereabouts.
Other school routes in region 14 such as 8021 show a starting date of 9 October but no finishing date hence they are also shown as being current but the link page shows them as not operating for the next two weeks.
And the same applies to school routes in other regions.
It will be interesting to see what the link pages shows within two weeks of resumption.

[Fleet Lists]

Also it does not appear to get a mention anywhere in the CDC website as it not listed as a public route and Aruma Disability Services is as expected not listed as a school so this route again does not appear to get a mention anywhere.

[Swift]

Yet there is a driver getting paid because of it. What do you class it as?

[Fleet Lists]

To muddy the water even more, there is also a route 294 Pittwater HS to Myoora Rd after Booralie Rd via Bayview in region 14 which in its link page is shown a school bus service and not operating for the next two weeks.
This routes can be found on the CDC under Pittwater High School where I then found three other routes 162, 131 and 292 which are classified as school routes in the Transport for NSW timetables. A further three digit route found there 196 is actually a public route.
Going back in history I do remember that some 10 years ago Forest had these routes.
But route 291 seems to be unique in that is classfied as a school route but does operate during school holidays.