Bus Observations 2023

[Merc1107]

There's plenty of logic behind it - observe people's behaviours when using the front vs the rear readers and you'll see exactly what I mean.

I've enough first-hand experience to know that interfering with the routine of the "sheep" is a very effective way to slow down your day, rather than speed it up. Perhaps Sydney is different.

[tonyp]

Having the second readers up adjacent to a flight of stairs can't help much either. There is a simple solution to all this, used in five other states and territories.

Somebody has even designed a bus specifically designed to facilitate that solution, two abreast, waiting for the penny to drop among operators and agencies.

[Swift]

Perhaps Sydney is different.

I err in the side of perhaps not.

Change will slow things down initially, but if it's applied with persistence and determination, they will have to adjust and will if they see no way out, and therein lies the problem in Sydney. Giving up to the whims of the squeaky wheels of the community.

[Kiyrri]

I am late to this discussion but in region 4 I used to regularly see the Opal reader near the driver covered; at the start of COVID with a sign due to health concerns, but then as the signs got ripped off, the face-mask or vest started appearing more regularly. Could have something to do with the more pedantic drivers not wanting people to stop near them perhaps? Otherwise it may be something to do with driver preferences; maybe their observations on certain routes was that the flow of the people moved? It is becoming less common now as COVID dies down (or so we think), but I still see the odd one or two busses with the Opal reader intentionally covered.

[Linto63]

A new bus shelter has been erected on Brontë Road outside Westfield Bondi Junction that lists all the southbound routes. But also included, albeit taped over, is the 333. Is a change of route on the cards for the Circular Quay to Bondi Beach service?

[tonyp]

As long as NSW persists with front door entry, these stupid issues will continue. I don't feel much sympathy for complaints about the consequences of it. We just have to shut up and live with it. I've lived all the way from the previous efficient era of all door entry, through to the era of the great shutting down of doors. Just be grateful it's not as bad as when everybody, in single file, had to fumble for coins to pay the driver and the time spent at stops was sometimes longer than the time actually moving on the journey.

[In Transit]

A new bus shelter has been erected on Brontë Road outside Westfield Bondi Junction that lists all the southbound routes. But also included, albeit taped over, is the 333. Is a change of route on the cards for the Circular Quay to Bondi Beach service?

The 333 is listed out of numerical sequence on the signage, and exactly in the right spot for the 313 (which has been omitted). Its nothing more than a simple error, as simple no doubt as someone mishearing or mistyping 333 for 313.

[Swift]

As long as NSW persists with front door entry, these stupid issues will continue. I don't feel much sympathy for complaints about the consequences of it. We just have to shut up and live with it. I've lived all the way from the previous efficient era of all door entry, through to the era of the great shutting down of doors. Just be grateful it's not as bad as when everybody, in single file, had to fumble for coins to pay the driver and the time spent at stops was sometimes longer than the time actually moving on the journey.

You will be continually ignored as the set around here are continuously in denial. NSW is literally best in world in their mind. A shame the rest of the world are unaware.

[boronia]

As long as NSW persists with front door entry, these stupid issues will continue. I don't feel much sympathy for complaints about the consequences of it. We just have to shut up and live with it. I've lived all the way from the previous efficient era of all door entry, through to the era of the great shutting down of doors. Just be grateful it's not as bad as when everybody, in single file, had to fumble for coins to pay the driver and the time spent at stops was sometimes longer than the time actually moving on the journey.

These days they fumble to find their Opal cards.

[pgt]

I am late to this discussion but in region 4 I used to regularly see the Opal reader near the driver covered; at the start of COVID with a sign due to health concerns, but then as the signs got ripped off, the face-mask or vest started appearing more regularly. Could have something to do with the more pedantic drivers not wanting people to stop near them perhaps? Otherwise it may be something to do with driver preferences; maybe their observations on certain routes was that the flow of the people moved? It is becoming less common now as COVID dies down (or so we think), but I still see the odd one or two busses with the Opal reader intentionally covered.

Speaking of COVID related things, yes I've seen some drivers covering up the front Opal reader (although one I saw covered up was actually faulty since you could see/hear it rebooting constantly), but also noticed some buses still blocking off the very front seat behind the front door - pretty sure it was a Busways R7 bus that had a plastic chain link across the opening for said seat still.

[alleve]

I am late to this discussion but in region 4 I used to regularly see the Opal reader near the driver covered; at the start of COVID with a sign due to health concerns, but then as the signs got ripped off, the face-mask or vest started appearing more regularly. Could have something to do with the more pedantic drivers not wanting people to stop near them perhaps? Otherwise it may be something to do with driver preferences; maybe their observations on certain routes was that the flow of the people moved? It is becoming less common now as COVID dies down (or so we think), but I still see the odd one or two busses with the Opal reader intentionally covered.

Speaking of COVID related things, yes I've seen some drivers covering up the front Opal reader (although one I saw covered up was actually faulty since you could see/hear it rebooting constantly), but also noticed some buses still blocking off the very front seat behind the front door - pretty sure it was a Busways R7 bus that had a plastic chain link across the opening for said seat still.

Lots of R7 buses have this, no idea why. Nobody else seems to do it

[tonyp]

These days they fumble to find their Opal cards.

Well at least there's only one Opal card to fumble for. This is where operators need to give some thought to positioning of readers, taking some cues from Europe, like placing them well away from doors (e.g. the opposite side of the aisle) so that people can be got on board and then do all the fumbling they want while the bus is moving away. Better than holding up the bus by doing the fumbling in the doorway itself.

[boronia]

Most bus drivers won't move away until everyone is seated, or standees firmly holding on.

Most people should be able to have their card in their hand before they board.

[Aurora]

Exactly right boronia.

[boronia]

I keep my Opal card in my phone case, I don't even have to take it out to tap.

I keep my active credit in my wallet, again I don't need to take it out to tap a reader. I keep a secondary card in a RFID shield, so it doesn't get read accidentally.

[Swift]

I saw a recent video on a former STA depot now run by one of the contractors and this spokesman with a monotone voice on a recruitment speech for drivers to join the team emphasises customer service. Do they want to attract drivers or not?
Stop with this silly unrealistic idealist nonsense and just get them in by not imposing unnecessary caveats from the get go. As long as the driver doesn't manhandle anybody, swear at them, doesn't crash the bus or run over someone, all is sweet. Bring back UTA days please.

[tonyp]

Most bus drivers won't move away until everyone is seated, or standees firmly holding on.

Most people should be able to have their card in their hand before they board.

That's a private bus legacy and now that they're all private, I guess that must be the case across the board. In the "good old days" of the government buses you'd barely set one foot inside and the bus would be dropped into gear and away, leaving you either propelled at high speed towards the back or sprawled on the floor. Still doesn't prevent interfacing with a ticket reader though, just hook one arm around the stanchion and scan with the free hand. Agree that people should have their card ready though. The growth of electric bus fleets should actually make it easier for people to do things standing while moving since there are no longer gear changes to throw people around.

[Kiyrri]

This is where operators need to give some thought to positioning of readers, taking some cues from Europe, like placing them well away from doors (e.g. the opposite side of the aisle) so that people can be got on board and then do all the fumbling they want while the bus is moving away.

While the positioning of the readers will definitely make a difference when it comes to crowd flow, the way the Opal system is set up, where you cannot tap on/off when the bus has moved away from a stop makes matters worse; people only have that small amount of time after they have boarded, but before the bus starts moving to tap on. To make crowd management their needs to be a change to the Opal software entirely; to allow passengers to still tap on when the bus has departed from a stop, otherwise the driver will still need to remain at the stop waiting for everyone to tap on anyway.

[tonyp]

While the positioning of the readers will definitely make a difference when it comes to crowd flow, the way the Opal system is set up, where you cannot tap on/off when the bus has moved away from a stop makes matters worse; people only have that small amount of time after they have boarded, but before the bus starts moving to tap on. To make crowd management their needs to be a change to the Opal software entirely; to allow passengers to still tap on when the bus has departed from a stop, otherwise the driver will still need to remain at the stop waiting for everyone to tap on anyway.

Good point. Failing that then, the only solution for fast boarding is going to be two double-width doors with readers on either side for two-abreast boarding. Like the Element.

Of course, in two other jurisdictions that do have all-door boarding, Adelaide and Canberra, they sabotage the advantage of it by acquiring buses that have a single-width centre door, often with stairs in it. So little thought goes into the science of bus productivity here in Australia. Custom Denning alone is ahead of the pack.

[ScaniaGrenda]

Not sure where to post this whether in the NSW E-Bus thread or here but I'm now curious if someone can tell me if Transdev John Holland runs their elements on the same route every weekday?

Only asking because I got a photo of 3123 ST yesterday down at Kent Street just behind Wynyard station at 11:50 AM on a 324 to Walsh Bay and today there is another element as of the writing of this post also running the 324 again and will be arriving at Kent Street also at 11:50 AM

[Kiyrri]

Of course, in two other jurisdictions that do have all-door boarding, Adelaide and Canberra, they sabotage the advantage of it by acquiring buses that have a single-width centre door, often with stairs in it. So little thought goes into the science of bus productivity here in Australia. Custom Denning alone is ahead of the pack.

Double door boarding would be such a great solution, but I highly doubt that it will ever become a reality here in NSW. StationLink's double-door boarding worked well, especially with the double leaf rear doors, which a lot of our busses have, the only problem is the dishonest people (and teenagers) who will sneak through the rear doors. At least when they do it through the front the driver can catch them out if he/she wants.

The positioning of the readers on the Element's are great; implementing positioning like that would be pretty much all the bus operators can do, for the issue of people fumbling around for their Opal card when they have evidently had ample time to find it before the bus reaches their stop is just a problem to do with how organised people are. They may not realise it, but after a few stops with people like that the bus will have easily gained another 3 or 4 minutes late; again not a big problem until somebody has a tight connection that they will miss due to this.

[Campbelltown busboy]

Of course, in two other jurisdictions that do have all-door boarding, Adelaide and Canberra, they sabotage the advantage of it by acquiring buses that have a single-width centre door, often with stairs in it. So little thought goes into the science of bus productivity here in Australia. Custom Denning alone is ahead of the pack.

Double door boarding would be such a great solution, but I highly doubt that it will ever become a reality here in NSW. StationLink's double-door boarding worked well, especially with the double leaf rear doors, which a lot of our busses have, the only problem is the dishonest people (and teenagers) who will sneak through the rear doors. At least when they do it through the front the driver can catch them out if he/she wants.

The positioning of the readers on the Element's are great; implementing positioning like that would be pretty much all the bus operators can do, for the issue of people fumbling around for their Opal card when they have evidently had ample time to find it before the bus reaches their stop is just a problem to do with how organised people are. They may not realise it, but after a few stops with people like that the bus will have easily gained another 3 or 4 minutes late; again not a big problem until somebody has a tight connection that they will miss due to this.

All door boarding won't stop the ones that use the my card is not working today excuse to cover up the fact that they ether remember at the very last minute that they don't have any money on their card or they clearly just want to see if the driver will react when the reader does it's insufficient funds thing

[boronia]

Double door boarding would be such a great solution, but I highly doubt that it will ever become a reality here in NSW. StationLink's double-door boarding worked well, especially with the double leaf rear doors, which a lot of our busses have, the only problem is the dishonest people (and teenagers) who will sneak through the rear doors. At least when they do it through the front the driver can catch them out if he/she wants.

Even with single door boarding passengers can ignore the readers, and drivers are not allowed to "catch them out".

[tonyp]

The fear of being caught in a random ticket inspection is supposed to keep revenue protection under control. The answer would be more RPOs on the system.

[Kiyrri]

At the moment that fear is around 0 for most people. I have seen a ticket inspector once on a train and never on a bus. Where are they during the school peaks... School peak on busses would be heaven for the ticket inspectors...