Trailerbus

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eddy
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Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

It has been suggested I start a new thread for the Trailerbus https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... top-button

As the hire bikes and scooters are a big problem left laying around everywhere I suggest people own them and use it to get to the main road where they can easily take it with them for use to their destination.

To achieve this I propose certain backroads are marked for cars to give priority to all while still allowing access for them.

It is just as manoeuvrable as a conventional bus but carries 150 people plus bikes, wheelchairs, strollers and even electric mobility scooters and I can get a prime mover and drive it for anyone who wants to build it.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

Apart from the huge doors the secret to the fast bus stop is that there is only one stop button next to them so people will get down from the top before the driver starts to slow just like a train to avoid the oncoming passengers.

To allow top passengers to know where they are I suggest a big screen satnav at the front.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

As you do not need a licence, registration or petrol for any electric bike as long as you are on the road and no faster than 25 km/h they will grow greatly in numbers and this brings us to the problem of danger with vehicles trying to pass them.

To address this danger I suggest a single deck carriage on DD trains where the guard can help getting over the gap and the Trailerbuses on busy roads.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... top-button
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

The main reason there is so much reluctance to try the Trailerbus in NSW is because people think of the old ones like in Cuba rather than having a Tesla prime mover https://www.tesla.com/semi

I know nobody wants to look foolish by trying something ground breaking that has not been proven overseas but I think it is worth a go with a Tesla prime mover to upgrade the image.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

eddy wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:04 am As you do not need a licence, registration or petrol for any electric bike as long as you are on the road and no faster than 25 km/h they will grow greatly in numbers and this brings us to the problem of danger with vehicles trying to pass them.

To address this danger I suggest a single deck carriage on DD trains where the guard can help getting over the gap and the Trailerbuses on busy roads.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... top-button
On the DD train yesterday I noticed a woman had an electric bike but had no room so she leant it against the doors but had to move it at each stop so there should be a single deck carriage on every train.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

eddy wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:35 am The main reason there is so much reluctance to try the Trailerbus in NSW is because people think of the old ones like in Cuba rather than having a Tesla prime mover https://www.tesla.com/semi

I know nobody wants to look foolish by trying something ground breaking that has not been proven overseas but I think it is worth a go with a Tesla prime mover to upgrade the image.
This is an interesting subsidy scheme for electric bikes in Denver for poor people. https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Ag ... es-Rebates
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

If cars and motorbikes have to give way to everybody unless the road is signposted then kids will ride to school and older people will use a battery assisted bike or mobility scooter to get to the station or Trailerbus so gone will be the buses driving around the back streets with very few people.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

We all know it is very hard to get people out of their cars which is called mobility so there are buses travelling around back streets to provide accessibility but if cars and motorbikes have to give way to everybody unless the road is signposted people can use any type of bike, stroller, mobility scooter or even walk to the to the station or Trailerbus and use whatever to get to their destination.

But it must have an extra single deck carriage for the guard to help people over the gap and a Trailerbus for signposted roads so both things have to be taken seriously now or we will be stuck with cars forever.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

The speed limit in most of Paris is 30 km/h https://cities-today.com/paris-introduc ... eed-limit/

Electric scooters may be banned in Paris https://electrek.co/2022/11/23/paris-ma ... -scooters/

So rather than having rental bikes and scooters laying around tripping up people or knocking them over I now think everybody takes their electric bike, scooter or mobility scooter and travels on any road which is not signposted to the single deck carriage on the train or a Trailerbus to use to get to their destination at the other end of their trip.

As people will drive at different speeds introduce a law that makes people keep two metres away when passing on these 30 km/h roads.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

Who can argue against safety as it is the trump card but as I have ridden on a route master for a year and never heard of anyone getting hurt I believe that it is a beat up the same with trailerbuses to get a door next to the driver to make it a one person operation before Opal.

If anyone has evidence that I cannot find please bring it to my attention.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

Desperately looking for old trailerbus accidents and cannot find any here https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH ... =625&dpr=1
I really would like someone who knows of one.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

300 million electric bikes expected to be sold worldwide 2023 so we need to develop Trailerbuses and single deck carriages to be placed in the centre of DD trains for the 10% of people who want to take it with them to use to their destination.

If the default speed is 30 km/h unless signposted on Sydney roads kids will ride to school saving NSW millions and making them healthier.
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Re: Trailerbus

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My late brother had many video cameras in his sheds and nothing was stolen so as theft is the biggest problem with electric bikes could every station have a rack under surveillance for the huge expected increase if we have default 30 km/h safe roads especially with Trailerbus and single deck carriages on DD trains for the 90% who can walk to their final destination.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

There are no records of even one trailerbus crash so I am sure it was just to get rid of the conductor.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by Transtopic »

For godsake eddy, give it a rest! Your fanciful ideas of inserting SD carriages into DD train sets and trailerbuses are totally out of touch with reality. I'm sure you mean well, but the only reason why I read your posts is to see how absurd they are.
.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by tonyp »

Transtopic wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:33 pm For godsake eddy, give it a rest! Your fanciful ideas of inserting SD carriages into DD train sets and trailerbuses are totally out of touch with reality. I'm sure you mean well, but the only reason why I read your posts is to see how absurd they are.
.
Well I like the idea of single deck cars in double deck trains because the amount of at-level space on high platform double deckers is completely inadequate, leading to much congestion around the vestibules as people staying and people coming and going clash. However, it's not a very likely solution. Better to transition to complete single deck trains for mass transit and keep double decks for interurbans and intercity where a modernised, accessible version of the V set would make an excellent limited-stop distance train. (Next time around after the NIFs and CAFs end their service.)

Eddy seems to ignore the fact that semi-trailer buses evolved into the articulated bus about 60 years ago and the latter do a far better job of it, provided operators don't skimp on doors nor the use of them.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:04 pm
Transtopic wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:33 pm For godsake eddy, give it a rest! Your fanciful ideas of inserting SD carriages into DD train sets and trailerbuses are totally out of touch with reality. I'm sure you mean well, but the only reason why I read your posts is to see how absurd they are.
.
Well I like the idea of single deck cars in double deck trains because the amount of at-level space on high platform double deckers is completely inadequate, leading to much congestion around the vestibules as people staying and people coming and going clash. However, it's not a very likely solution. Better to transition to complete single deck trains for mass transit and keep double decks for interurbans and intercity where a modernised, accessible version of the V set would make an excellent limited-stop distance train. (Next time around after the NIFs and CAFs end their service.)
Just what I would expect to hear from you because of your anathema towards anything to do with the existing Sydney Trains network, and in particular, the DD rolling stock. I would hardly regard your opinions as being objective, in spite of your past experience in the transport sector. There are those, including myself, who beg to differ.

The ideologically driven LNP government favouring metro expansion, at the expense of upgrading the existing network, has compromised the efficient operation of the broader rail network, cutting off options for future upgrading and expansion where it's needed. The DD v SD debate is a side issue. The current government nevertheless has continued to order DD trains for both the Suburban and Intercity networks, which are unlikely to be replaced for at least another 30 to 40 years.

I attach a presentation from John Austen, a former executive with Infrastructure Australia, which adds a more realistic assessment of the future direction of the current government's rail planning in Sydney.

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/vie ... BROWSELINK
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

A bendy bus is just a trailerbus with a door next to the driver to eliminate the need for a conductor in the days before Opal.

Thanks for the attachment and DD are great but should have a single deck centre carriage for the electric assisted bikes.

Electric assist bikes will have a huge disruptive effect on toll roads, buses and trains and we can either encourage the use of them by having safe 30 km/h default roads where people have plenty of room to pass or just hope somehow we all get electric cars.

I often wonder how many people thought the Wright bros were mad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by tonyp »

Transtopic wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:48 pm Just what I would expect to hear from you because of your anathema towards anything to do with the existing Sydney Trains network, and in particular, the DD rolling stock. I would hardly regard your opinions as being objective, in spite of your past experience in the transport sector. There are those, including myself, who beg to differ.

The ideologically driven LNP government favouring metro expansion, at the expense of upgrading the existing network, has compromised the efficient operation of the broader rail network, cutting off options for future upgrading and expansion where it's needed. The DD v SD debate is a side issue. The current government nevertheless has continued to order DD trains for both the Suburban and Intercity networks, which are unlikely to be replaced for at least another 30 to 40 years.
What an outburst, considering I'm not even talking about metro, but rather the improvement of the suburban and distance rail systems.

Eddy raises a valid point. The amount of at-level space in Sydney's double deck suburban trains is a major issue. Not only does it result in a deficit of accessible floor space for those many who can't use stairs (including those who have additional stuff with them, including wheelchairs, mobility scooters, electric scooters, bikes, luggage and prams), the limited at-level space available causes severe congestion because that space is also used for ingress to and egress from the train. This and the presence of stairs affects the overall functionality and efficiency of the train, including limiting passenger capacity, because the train won't load fully, and extending dwell times. Double deckers are unsuited to frequent stopping, high turnover city commuter service - the same can be said for double decker buses.

On the other hand (again like double deck buses), they're very good for distance work with less stopping and in these roles they're increasingly used around the world. The V set design, apart from the lack of disabled access at that time, was an ideal layout for a distance train, with a good mixture of at-level and double deck spaces. It achieved this, of course, by the traditional layout of doors at the carriage ends. It's a bit of a disaster that it was felt necessary to bring the NIF doors into alignment with the suburban doors because it's almost obliterated the practical at-level areas and seating therein.

As for the suburban system, this does desperately need single deck trains which, after all, have the same practical capacity as a double deck train, the only issue being seating capacity. The answer to this is what you see on the metro - more trains per hour (= more seats per hour). The new train operation/signalling systems that you frequently remind us about should enable those closer headways and quicker services.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by tonyp »

There is, of course, a transitional solution, used previously in Sydney. Except that the transition is in the other direction.

Image
(Mega Anorak image)

Three doors on the single decks this time though. For both single deckers and distance trains, we'd need to revisit the question of door spacing standardisation in the context of different types of train (suburban, medium distance, long distance) sharing stations on the same system. What is spacing standardisation really going to achieve? Platform screen doors have been mentioned, but not officially. How can we have them anyway at platforms that are shared by suburban and country trains? Marshalling boarding passengers to align them with doors? Same issue. If you have three doors in each carriage though, you don't need crowd channeling because there are more doors available - rather like all-door vs queuing for front door loading on buses.

Then there are the NIFs. The design has been heavily compromised to bring them into alignment with the present suburban trains, rather than more like the country trains that they should be. That'll have to wait 40 years for another go at it. Thank goodness I won't be around to see some other excruciating wrong decisions made.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by hornetfig »

tonyp wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:08 pm Eddy raises a valid point. The amount of at-level space in Sydney's double deck suburban trains is a major issue. Not only does it result in a deficit of accessible floor space for those many who can't use stairs (including those who have additional stuff with them, including wheelchairs, mobility scooters, electric scooters, bikes, luggage and prams), the limited at-level space available causes severe congestion because that space is also used for ingress to and egress from the train.
These aren't problems on which nothing can be done within the confines of having a "double deck" train.

eg Open the intercarriage gangway up to improve use/circulation of the vestibules.

More drastically, shorten the decks, at expense of capacity. Wait 20 years to get any critical mass...
Last edited by hornetfig on Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by Merc1107 »

This is likely the wrong area to raise the question - but has anyone, anywhere in the world considered exclusively double-deck trains with double-deck platforms?
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:08 pm
Transtopic wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:48 pm Just what I would expect to hear from you because of your anathema towards anything to do with the existing Sydney Trains network, and in particular, the DD rolling stock. I would hardly regard your opinions as being objective, in spite of your past experience in the transport sector. There are those, including myself, who beg to differ.

The ideologically driven LNP government favouring metro expansion, at the expense of upgrading the existing network, has compromised the efficient operation of the broader rail network, cutting off options for future upgrading and expansion where it's needed. The DD v SD debate is a side issue. The current government nevertheless has continued to order DD trains for both the Suburban and Intercity networks, which are unlikely to be replaced for at least another 30 to 40 years.
What an outburst, considering I'm not even talking about metro, but rather the improvement of the suburban and distance rail systems.

Eddy raises a valid point. The amount of at-level space in Sydney's double deck suburban trains is a major issue. Not only does it result in a deficit of accessible floor space for those many who can't use stairs (including those who have additional stuff with them, including wheelchairs, mobility scooters, electric scooters, bikes, luggage and prams), the limited at-level space available causes severe congestion because that space is also used for ingress to and egress from the train. This and the presence of stairs affects the overall functionality and efficiency of the train, including limiting passenger capacity, because the train won't load fully, and extending dwell times. Double deckers are unsuited to frequent stopping, high turnover city commuter service - the same can be said for double decker buses.

On the other hand (again like double deck buses), they're very good for distance work with less stopping and in these roles they're increasingly used around the world. The V set design, apart from the lack of disabled access at that time, was an ideal layout for a distance train, with a good mixture of at-level and double deck spaces. It achieved this, of course, by the traditional layout of doors at the carriage ends. It's a bit of a disaster that it was felt necessary to bring the NIF doors into alignment with the suburban doors because it's almost obliterated the practical at-level areas and seating therein.

As for the suburban system, this does desperately need single deck trains which, after all, have the same practical capacity as a double deck train, the only issue being seating capacity. The answer to this is what you see on the metro - more trains per hour (= more seats per hour). The new train operation/signalling systems that you frequently remind us about should enable those closer headways and quicker services.
Apologies, I got a bit carried away and went off topic there. It would be worthwhile having further discussion on a new thread with regard to Labor's policy for future rail planning, when it's released. We already know what the current government's plan is.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:26 pm This is likely the wrong area to raise the question - but has anyone, anywhere in the world considered exclusively double-deck trains with double-deck platforms?
I guess any country with low-level platforms (e.g. in Europe, North America) could consider it, but they haven't. They already have a large, at-level, accessible area on most of the lower deck (i.e. between the bogies). It's jurisdictions with high-level (UK type) platforms that have issues with double deck trains because the entries are level with neither the lower deck nor the upper deck.
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Re: Trailerbus

Post by eddy »

As the old Trailer buses fell out of favour at the same time as Australia and America fell in love with cars I think because patronage went the bus companies wanted to save so they pushed for buses to have only one operator and that was the end of the DD Route buses and Trailerbuses.
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