2023 NSW Election

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Correct until 2027 as they are on a 10 year contract which 2027 could go two ways;

Labor if they still manage to form state government by then will possibly look at either trying to bring what they can back into public hands or B the contract isn't given again to Keolis Downer and is given to the next private operator in line as KD by then would've faced numerous complaints & as well as invesgations as to whether their fit to retain the contract.

If Keolis are going to do anything beneficial for Newcastle, at least try to to work with TransportNSW & expand the On-Demand footprint to include Newcastle CBD & the surrounds. All we ever heard If I'm recalling correctly was the trial did conclude for Belmont & Mt Hutton so obviously it was kept & not pulled after conclusion of the trial however no network expansion was made but on the other hand they did tweak the operating hours so that was a slight positive.

The tram timetime could be tweaked by TNSW, lower the waiting time between trams on a weekend from 15 to 10 minutes at least, I find if I just miss the one tram that's literally been It's quicker to walk to the next station than wait. Something for a Public Transport service that shouldn't simply be happening but I suppose when you kill off the heavy rail corridor & the shops shut up shop and make the east end a ghost town you've got your justification to run services at a lower frequency because whose going to east end when there's bugger all except the beach?
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Linto63
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Linto63 »

Stu wrote: STA could not tender for any regions since the first announcement of franchising was made in May 2017. The state government cannot say ‘we no longer want to directly operate bus services’ and also at the same time say ‘we want to put in a tender to directly operate bus services’.
When Adelaide and Perth put their services out to tender in the 1990s, some regions were won by the incumbent operators. Whether that was because the private sector put in uncompetitive bids or didn't bid at all is unknown, but when next tendered the government operators were not allowed to bid.
HunterLine5 wrote: I would like to be a fly on the wall at Keolis Downer Newcastle, the management there knowing that the contract won’t be renewed, and what time there is left will go quickly enough, and the drivers walking into work this morning have probably got a spring in their step, and quite rightly so.
Anybody holding out for renationalisation is likely to be disappointed. The current contracts will run until their expiry dates and most likely then be relet. Both sides of politics prefer to have services operated by the private sector as it creates a buffer between them and a problem, allowing them to blame the contractor rather than take personal responsibility.

Even though bus privatisation was introduced by the Liberals in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth in the 1990s with Labor opposing, subsequent Labor administrations have stayed the course.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by HunterLine5 »

That is true about the libs mentioned in Lintos post, but I really doubt that the Unionists will just let MINNS carry on with extending privatisation ….. especially after all the spruiking he and the Labor council have been going on about, but, I guess…. It all comes down in the end , to , is he dinkum, or not?.
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Time will tell, as someone on another social media platform pointed out & I suppose it does make sense depending where your views line however they commented that this election did feel It was more about getting the Liberals out rather than keeping them in for another term and that labor wasn't being voted in simply because their any better. Personally myself I do agree although time for a much needed change and I was surprised to see last nights results especially with all these swings to Labor.

Upper Hunter no surprises didn't swing through, still held onto the blue ribbon even after some nasty stuff about a certain Nationals MP who has faced quite the controversial rapsheet had an audio conversation leaked pretty much mocking Singleton, the roads, firies, hospitals etc.
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moa999
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by moa999 »

Tend to agree it will be difficult for the government to start running buses again.

With nothing to do for the next five years or so, the STA is gone, and you can't recreate knowledge or people out of thin air.

About the only way would be if an operator is massively underperforming and losing money and the government takes over that operation (as happened with some UK rail contacts for example)
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by alleve »

Labor won't renationalise buses. What's done is done. The whole anti-privatisation thing relates to the future - they won't privatise Sydney Trains/TrainLink, for example.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time we've had all mainland states + federal Labor.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by boronia »

Anti-privatisation is more of a local union anti-LNP issue.

Other Labor states have privatised train, bus and ferry services. They also have DOO trains and all-door bus loading under the same unions.
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

alleve wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:57 am Labor won't renationalise buses. What's done is done. The whole anti-privatisation thing relates to the future - they won't privatise Sydney Trains/TrainLink, for example.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time we've had all mainland states + federal Labor.
According to sky news post 2007 federal election labor was in government in all 5 mainland states both territories Tasmania and federal
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Enviro 500 »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:51 am
alleve wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:57 am Labor won't renationalise buses. What's done is done. The whole anti-privatisation thing relates to the future - they won't privatise Sydney Trains/TrainLink, for example.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time we've had all mainland states + federal Labor.
According to sky news post 2007 federal election labor was in government in all 5 mainland states both territories Tasmania and federal
But not for long. The Libs returned to power in WA in 2008. At one point, we had a Liberal government at federal level and all states but SA.
HunterLine5
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by HunterLine5 »

And now………… one from the FAR SIDE, 😂…… What if the S.T.A. WAS REBORN, and all the PRIVATES were operating on BEHALF OF STATE TRANSIT?.

If this were the case, in theory, all the different contracts could be absorbed by the new S.T.A..

This would end the need to compensate companies that MAY face early termination of their contracts.

True, everyone here is saying that MINNS and the UNIONS won’t touch the buses now that they’re in, judging by all the naysayers, so….my suggestion is just THAT….

FROM THE FAR SIDE.😂😎
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Merc1107 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:15 am But not for long. The Libs returned to power in WA in 2008. At one point, we had a Liberal government at federal level and all states but SA.
The next one to watch carefully is the Northern Territory. Two-term government thus far, elected on a platform of "eliminating corruption and scandal", not only has it been scandal after scandal, but they've presided over catastrophes in healthcare, with crime, with spending ... and vehemently deny any of it is a problem. The Opposition Leader is incredibly vocal, very involved with her community and seems a reasonable choice to return the CLP to power. What we've seen in Alice Springs recently (not really, the situation there has been terrible for a long time) with the PM swooping in and playing damage control seemed to me like a ploy to either paint Labor in the NT as the problem or pull them into line.

QLD will be next in line by a couple of months, another two-term Labor Government.

So I'd be surprised if Labor had control of all mainland states and territories for very long.
Linto63
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Linto63 »

HunterLine5 wrote: This would end the need to compensate companies that MAY face early termination of their contracts.
Rubbish, governments can't just novate contracts and declare all bets are off.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by HunterLine5 »

Doesn’t the gov. OWN the buses, including Depots anyway,?……… and I did say …… MAY……!!.
Linto63
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Linto63 »

Yes it does, but that doesn’t mean it can just walk away from a contract without reason.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Fleet Lists »

The Government owns all buses acquired as new from about 2006/2007. Earlier buses are still owned by the operators. So this still has about 7 years to go. An exception is Transdev in their two southern regions where as part of the contract renewal negotiations in 2014 they handed over all their buses to the Government to gain certain other concessions.

And as far as depots go, only those built as part of the Government depot building program, are owned the Government. So this only cover those built in the last 8 years or so. EX STA depots would be an exception to that.
And now………… one from the FAR SIDE, 😂…… What if the S.T.A. WAS REBORN, and all the PRIVATES were operating on BEHALF OF STATE TRANSIT?.
The new STA would just be part of Transport for NSW and would just create an extra level of red tape. Note that on present accreditations, the operators operate on behalf of Transport for NSW or NSW Government.
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Glen
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Glen »

HunterLine5 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:16 am And now………… one from the FAR SIDE, 😂…… What if the S.T.A. WAS REBORN, and all the PRIVATES were operating on BEHALF OF STATE TRANSIT?.
The benefit of which is?
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Enviro 500 »

Merc1107 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:22 pm
Enviro 500 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:15 am But not for long. The Libs returned to power in WA in 2008. At one point, we had a Liberal government at federal level and all states but SA.
The next one to watch carefully is the Northern Territory. Two-term government thus far, elected on a platform of "eliminating corruption and scandal", not only has it been scandal after scandal, but they've presided over catastrophes in healthcare, with crime, with spending ... and vehemently deny any of it is a problem. The Opposition Leader is incredibly vocal, very involved with her community and seems a reasonable choice to return the CLP to power. What we've seen in Alice Springs recently (not really, the situation there has been terrible for a long time) with the PM swooping in and playing damage control seemed to me like a ploy to either paint Labor in the NT as the problem or pull them into line.

QLD will be next in line by a couple of months, another two-term Labor Government.

So I'd be surprised if Labor had control of all mainland states and territories for very long.
PM as in Albo? He is ALP isn't he? I'd be more convinced if Scummo were trashing NT Labor because that's all he is good at.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Merc1107 »

Enviro 500 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:25 pm PM as in Albo? He is ALP isn't he? I'd be more convinced if Scummo were trashing NT Labor because that's all he is good at.
Correct, Albanese was the one who stopped in. It was there they announced the return of (some) intervention-era policies around alcohol, following well over a year of vehement denial of wrong-doing by the NT Chief Minister & Co after alcohol bans expired.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by 1whoknows »

I think Hunterline5 needs to understand that if Victoria's Chinese communist government won't renationalise there is no chance that the NSW wets will do so. Its only the South Australians who are stupid enough to even consider it, and that will come to a bad end.
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tonyp
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by tonyp »

Labor urged to keep city moving despite dumping $50b in projects

Stamp duty reforms new Metros and tunnels are among big-ticket projects NSW’s new government will dump on the scrapheap. See the projects which won’t go ahead here.

Lachlan Leeming

Daily Telegraph, March 27, 2023
15 comments

New Premier Chris Minns has been pressed to keep building the Sydney of tomorrow and not to pull up stumps on the new Metros, highways and infrastructure the city needs, despite $50 billion of projects going down the drain.

As the curtain falls on a 12-year Coalition government which got Sydney moving by building WestConnex, the Sydney Light Rail and the booming Metro network, top business leaders and peak bodies from across the city have pleaded with Labor not to shirk from planning the city’s future.

Mr Minns, who will be sworn in alongside his leadership team of ministers on Tuesday, campaigned on a platform of being financially conservative amid soaring inflation and interest rates, with Labor’s pledges including not pushing ahead with $50 billion of Coalition projects they claimed were unfunded.

Labor’s election means projects the Coalition steadfastly backed will be axed, including raising the Warragamba Dam wall, building two Metro extensions in Sydney’s west, and a tunnel under the Blue Mountains.

Dominic Perrottet’s signature stamp duty reforms will also be repealed, while his plans for a superannuation-style Future Fund for children will also fall into the ether.

Labor will instead back a mandate including hospital upgrades and new schools in western Sydney, while lifting the stamp duty concession for first homebuyers to $800,000.

Eamon Waterford, CEO of the Committee for Sydney, said the new government had to continue the Coalition’s ambitious streak.

“We’re still playing catch-up on transport infrastructure – especially in the west, where the network still connects best to the Sydney CBD, not to the west itself,” he said.

LABOR’S SCRAPHEAP:
-Stamp duty reforms forecast to cost $729m over four years
-$260m for business cases for Metros linking Westmead to the new Western Sydney Airport, and Glenfield to Bankstown
-$2b plan to raise Warragamba Dam wall
-A tunnel under the Blue Mountains from Blackheath to Little Hartley forecast to cost $8-$11b
-A $10b tunnel linking the Northern Beaches to north-east Sydney
-A weekly cap on public transport of $40 down from $50

LABOR’S PROMISES:
-Lifting the stamp duty exemption for first homebuyers to $800,000 and concessions to $1m
-An extra $200m into Parramatta Light Rail Stage 2 and $300m to make train stations disability friendly.
-A $60 weekly cap on tolls
-$1.1b package to upgrade local roads
-Introducing staffing ratios for nurses and hospital upgrades at Fairfield and Canterbury worth $340m

“It is critical for the new government to stay the course on the size of the infrastructure pipeline – and to deliver a network that gets people quickly, safely and efficiently where they need to go.

“If we get it right, it’s a platform that will drive the state’s success for decades to come.”

Business Western Sydney CEO David Borger said Labor should reconsider its pledge to dump business cases for two Metro extensions – one linking Westmead to the new airport and the other linking Bankstown to Glenfield.

“You’ve got to see infrastructure as a way of enabling housing and housing’s the biggest issue in our city at the moment,” he said.

“The only way you can compare which (Metro) lines are beneficial is to do the studies.

“Having said that, we’re at peak infrastructure now, we’re running out of money, big inflation factor, (and) there’s a hunt for infrastructure workers.”

Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils (WSROC) President Barry Calvert said his group would pressure the government over infrastructure for the booming region.

“What we’re going to be doing with the new government is calling them in and saying we want forward planning – don’t let 10,000 new homes go into an area until the infrastructure is planned for.”

Labor’s incoming Treasurer Daniel Mookhey said they had been elected on a transparent platform which included detailing which projects they would dump in a bid to balance the books.

“We made a deliberate point of being very upfront with the people of NSW about what we will build and equally about the tough decisions we need to make at a time where interest rates are rising, debt’s up and people are under immense pressure,” he said.

Mr Mookhey said Labor was looking forward to upgrading hospitals in Canterbury and Fairfield, building a swathe of new schools in booming western Sydney, and building local infrastructure.

“We‘re mindful of the fact that so many communities have felt like they’ve gone without the essential infrastructure that they rely upon,” he said.

Bathurst Mayor Robert Taylor however described Labor’s dumping of a proposed 10-kilometre tunnel on the western side of the Blue Mountains as “absolutely devastating” and feared the bush faced a lack of investment in coming years.

“We’ve got an inferior arterial road … to pull that funding for the tunnel is absolutely devastating. We’ve been advocating for this major upgrade for 20 years,” he said.

“We’ve got nothing major proposed for regional areas … it’s just like the bush is being forgotten.”

“Obviously the people have spoken, but I just don’t hope they forget people do live on the other side of (the Blue Mountains).”

Comments:

Hayley
5 hours ago
Labour will pour billions into pet left wing projects like climate change, a NSW voice, funding the LGBTQI + museum
Matt
5 hours ago
So instead of all this infrastructure spending, NSW should see by the end of Labors first term no shortage of nurses or teachers as they will have to do something.
Frank
5 hours ago
So the main Highway feeding food into Sydney from the central west, will be again left to deal with one of the most dangerous passes in Australia (Mt Victoria) which still utilizes a bridge built by the convicts.
Abandoned by federal Labor and now State Labor. It’s a joke.
Steven
6 hours ago
I'm sure Labor will find some climate change myths and other fairy tale idealisms to waste money on
Joe
7 hours ago
Welcome back to the Carr build nothing do nothing years again
George
7 hours ago
Our extraordinary infrastructure growth has been the envy of the western world. The amount of global investment it has attracted has so many flow on benefits for taxpayers in NSW amd Australia. Hopefully these projects can continue under public private partnership models - they have worked so well to deliver so much.
Schnauzer
12 hours ago
Northern beaches residents will have to wait at least a decade before a tunnel link is back on the menu. Never go near the ALP, they just don’t care about God’s country, never have, never will. The LNP were stalling also, but at least they didn’t scrap the plans altogether, take it off the menu completely like the ALP/Greens have just done.
Oh well, next time eh?
Ray
14 hours ago
I hope Minns isn't planning on building a hospital downstream of Warragamba?? Business advice for investors of the future !! Candle industry, Pushbikes and Rickshaws but they still need Chinese manufacturing from Australian Coal and other mining. Blessed are we in NSW that industialism will be closed down and we can rely on China to supply us our needs from Australian products!
Raymond
14 hours ago
why cant we have nice things.
Anthony
15 hours ago
Back to the Bob Carr days of 11 years of inaction and a hefty blow out that the Liberals cleaned up ...again
Matt
5 hours ago
It was 16 years.
Helen
15 hours ago
This could be a very short honeymoon
David
16 hours ago
Labor built nothing last time they were in power in NSW and the lefty leopard won't change its spots this time in. Regressive, union puppets
James
16 hours ago
First sign of the return to Bob Carr days of deliver nothing. In the meantime, wages will blow out, state taxes increase, followed by the interest rate remaining high due to wages blow out. Good luck NSW for the next 8 years. Fancy asking Dom for guidance on governing. You are now captain of the ship, figure out your own course Minns. NSW will be governed by a bunch of school kids.
David
16 hours ago
It's always Sydney that gets everything.. We too pay taxes outside Sydney
tonyp
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by tonyp »

And an interesting, but speculative commentary:

https://kypros1992.wordpress.com/2023/0 ... the-reins/
hornetfig
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by hornetfig »

You might summon kypros...
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7440

Or you can read this one
https://kypros1992.wordpress.com/2022/11/20/compromise/

And change your mind on the quality of their analyses?
Enviro 500
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by Enviro 500 »

Seems like Labor may not be getting the majority it needs. More surprisingly, Gareth Ward was allowed to stand as a candidate despite being suspended pending investigation into serious charges levelled against him.

Anyway, here's my take on Dominic Perrotet's government getting wiped out, albeit a bit premature.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by J_Busworth »

We have our new Transport Minister, Jo Haylen, and it seems she is already getting busy.

It will be interesting to see how all the promised bus changes come off, and if work actually starts on the long promised Olympic Park Light Rail link.

Given the moves in SA to bring the privately run Trains and Trams back under government control, I wouldn't discount the same happening here as contracts come up. Newcastle and the Inner West could be government operated again before we know it.
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Re: 2023 NSW Election

Post by boronia »

Gotta love how she praises the Oscar trains as being the "last carriages manufactured in NSW", but conveniently forgets that was because Labor ordered the Waratahs from China.
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