Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

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Special_K
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Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

After 40 years in the transport industry, it is time for me to say goodbye to STA at Willoughby and Ryde. While M and Y will still be there, things will be different under Busways, and with TfNSW guidance, will still provide an excellent service in the State Transit tradition.
My own career has rotated around both depots and indeed every STA Sydney location since starting at Willoughby as a Conductor in 1981. Progressive roles as Conductor, Driver, Revenue Clerk, Roster Clerk, Scheduler, Operations Manager, Depot Manager and Planning Manager involved working at both depots over the years.
Willoughby remains tucked away in a residential area providing bus services and routes much changed from the distant past. Likewise, Ryde has more than doubled in size and operates an immense variety of routes, with both depots sharing and interworking Epping Road runs.
Those who have worked within State Transit know that depots are more than buses, routes, and timetables. It is the people who make the job so special. Characters who have come and gone, while others remain. As a driver, you can be as social or alone as you like. Managers, Supervisors, Office Staff, and others come and go, but it is the people, Institutes and meal-room philosophers that help make it something unique.
Thank you, Willoughby, and Ryde, for providing me with a large chunk of my own transport journey. Time to make new traditions and memories!
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swtt
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by swtt »

...and whilst we're at it, thank you for all of your time in contributing to this forum - I've personally enjoyed every one of your posts, Special_K!
Special_K
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

Thanks swtt. My posts have been rather irregular of late. Always good to share bus and rail insights, even obscure SMR references!
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Ray
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Ray »

Great post. Question is, what next for Region 7?

Next big change is the full opening of the Metro from Chatswood to city and Bankstown in 2024.

We would expect the M2 services to all but disappear from the city, but perhaps the same will happen to a lot of Region 7. Perhaps 288 will survive as Kent Rd is too far from the rail. But it certainly wouldn't need to go to Epping. 292 doesn't need to go to the city. 291 could be cut back to North Ryde station.

Eastern Valley way services could either run to city or North Sydney but probably not both. Route 115 will almost certainly be cut back too - possibly diverted to McMahons Pt.

Then the Ryde side will see the new Parramatta metro and light rail. Lot of consolidation there, but the real effect is probably Region 6 with Parramatta Rd services feeding the Metro instead of going to city.

So overall, less work across the region seems to be the trend.
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pgt
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by pgt »

Ray wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:12 am Great post. Question is, what next for Region 7?

Next big change is the full opening of the Metro from Chatswood to city and Bankstown in 2024.

We would expect the M2 services to all but disappear from the city, but perhaps the same will happen to a lot of Region 7. Perhaps 288 will survive as Kent Rd is too far from the rail. But it certainly wouldn't need to go to Epping. 292 doesn't need to go to the city. 291 could be cut back to North Ryde station.
Those on Mowbray Road in Lane Cove North I suspect would disagree re the 292, since they'd be going back to having no city services (some parts are too far from Epping Road to walk to it easily).
Not sure terminating any service at North Ryde is an easy thing, and I have been on the 291 a few times enough to notice that it does get a few passengers North Ryde to Macquarie Centre at least (even though it is only hourly).
Eastern Valley way services could either run to city or North Sydney but probably not both. Route 115 will almost certainly be cut back too - possibly diverted to McMahons Pt.
The 115 already gets cut back to North Sydney at night - and McMahons Point I doubt would have the room to cope with more buses, so perhaps changing the 291 to either go back to the city a-la 290 (as part of a wider reorganisation involving doing something with the 320 which is the odd region 6 service) or something along those lines would be needed as well.
Noting that of the 3 services that go to McMahon's Point, two of them were formerly Pacific Highway services that went to the city, and the other is basically an hourly off-peak service to Kirribilli, the issue might be making sure buses meet the ferry... which given it's a 20 minute service off-peak means either also removing the 254 from McMahon's Point or making sure the residents don't complain when 2 or 3 buses are there at the same time (if they fit).
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Ray
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Ray »

Yes for sure - no real reason for 291 to run beyond Epping/ North Ryde which would allow another service like 115 to replace it at the wharf. 292 would most likely be curtailed City to Mowbray Rd as you suggest. Basically the old presumption of an Epping/ Marsfield to City/ North Sydney paradigm could be replaced by mostly feeder services to trains except for Kent or Mowbray areas where the incumbent route doesn't really offer direct connection from catchment to nearest station.

Will be interesting to see whether QVB is reinstated as a terminus for those routes that do continue to City.
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Special_K
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

In normal times, many retirement village residents use the 291 to travel from the Marsfield/Macquarie area direct to either RNS or Mater Hospital precincts. Curtailing the route at North Ryde would leave a service gap until the 252s kick in at Lane Cove Interchange.It is unlikely that this demographic would catch a feeder bus to Macquarie Uni Station then the Metro to Crows Nest then another bus to the final destination.I acknowledge that these folk could also catch a 292 to LCI then transfer to a 252!

Once the Metro is introduced, solid Origin and Destination data should help determine where routes can be curtailed or modified.

Agree that Eastern Valley Way is due for an overhaul. The existing route structure was introduced in early 2004 with the most recent change being the peak period curtailment of some routes at North Sydney and of course, the City terminal returning to Loftus Street.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by ed24 »

pgt wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:50 am
Ray wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:12 am Great post. Question is, what next for Region 7?

Next big change is the full opening of the Metro from Chatswood to city and Bankstown in 2024.

We would expect the M2 services to all but disappear from the city, but perhaps the same will happen to a lot of Region 7. Perhaps 288 will survive as Kent Rd is too far from the rail. But it certainly wouldn't need to go to Epping. 292 doesn't need to go to the city. 291 could be cut back to North Ryde station.
Those on Mowbray Road in Lane Cove North I suspect would disagree re the 292, since they'd be going back to having no city services (some parts are too far from Epping Road to walk to it easily).
Not sure terminating any service at North Ryde is an easy thing, and I have been on the 291 a few times enough to notice that it does get a few passengers North Ryde to Macquarie Centre at least (even though it is only hourly).
Could more services terminate at Lachlan's Line like the 545 perhaps?
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by pgt »

ed24 wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:00 amCould more services terminate at Lachlan's Line like the 545 perhaps?
Besides there being very little other than a few shops and residential, Lachlan's Line if I recall correctly is only really accessible by road from the western direction (so Wicks Road or that slip road for Fairfax Street off Epping Road eastbound), which suits the 545 coming from Macquarie Centre and beyond, but not for a service coming from the Lane Cove direction short of a bus going down Wicks Road (a pedestrian footbridge seems to link that with the area near North Ryde metro station though).

Re the 292 - on top of Mowbray Road, it also services Fontenoy Road [with the 259] and Marsfield terminus (Busaco Road), so any split/curtailing of that route would need an alternative for those areas which are residential - and given it is a city service, it would need some analysis to determine what sort of service should be provided post Metro opening.
Special_K wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:38 pm In normal times, many retirement village residents use the 291 to travel from the Marsfield/Macquarie area direct to either RNS or Mater Hospital precincts. Curtailing the route at North Ryde would leave a service gap until the 252s kick in at Lane Cove Interchange.It is unlikely that this demographic would catch a feeder bus to Macquarie Uni Station then the Metro to Crows Nest then another bus to the final destination.I acknowledge that these folk could also catch a 292 to LCI then transfer to a 252!
The timing of the interchange at Lane Cove can be quite bad though, especially if the 252/254 leaves just before the inbound 292 [or 288 even] which does happen, which can lead to about a 20+ minute wait - long enough for some to walk up to the Pacific Highway to get the 144 if that serves their final destination.
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
Might be a way to lead life, but more like the way that some people drive.
Special_K
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

Those of us with a service planning background naturally think of route options and possibilities. There is so much scope for adjusting and realloacting resources around the network, Even today, there are reduced service levels owing to COVID staff shortages meaning that Busways could well start running Region 7 on a "dynamic" timetable.

In the meantime, we reflect on times past and the great memories of Willoughby and Ryde depot life while looking forward to the looming new chapter. A far cry from the days when a typical Ryde driving shift was two round 500s Ryde to the Quay and return and possibly the same routes on the second half of the shift. Funnily enough, Ryde artic drivers are almost doing the same now with the bendies mainly confined to the 500X!

Willoughby route 273 express working would see you on a First Stop Frenchman's Road grinding up the Freeway with a full standing load. The Leyland Worldmaster "Mono" crawling to a walking speed on the grade, where even the cyclists could overtake!
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

Another regular shift in the early eighties involved a Ryde driver venturing into Willoughby territory by operating an early afternoon Route 287 from Wynyard to Ryde, all stops via North Sydney (no Gore Hill Freeway then). On arriving at the end of Blenheim Road, North Ryde, the driver would change the destos and route numbers to 506 (North Ryde to Quay via Victoria Road), while the passengers patiently waited before trundling on.

From memory, the shift finished with a 518 East Ryde Express, first stop Hunters Hill shops, so you made sure you had the correct tin sign to stick on the bus front.

As parts of North Ryde and Hunters Hill were still hallowed Hunters Hill Bus Company territory, goverment buses only ventured beyond Ryde to North Ryde or linked the city with Hunters Hill and East Ryde during the weekday peak periods.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by LB608 »

In the 70's Willoughby used to do 506 to Ryde
173 to Narraweena
440 to Lecihhardt
417 to Country Trains /Central Station
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by ffgm050 »

173 went to Cromer Heights
174 at the time went to Narraweena
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Ray
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Ray »

In the 90s there were still some 500s which were done by M. Seems weird now but of course M still did the odd Victoria Rd service as late as the 2010s. Come to think of it, no reason why they shouldn't do it now...still the same region.

In the long run, do we really need an M depot at all? Military Rd gone to N. Epping Road gone to Y. Chatswood/ Crows Nest to be covered by Metro. Eastern Valley Way covered by Region 14. Sure, there's a lot of odds and ends left over, but nothing really big.

But then, I predicted the closure of Randwick after the light rail opened and that hasn't happened.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Linto63 »

And where would the 150 buses go? North Sydney and Ryde may have some spare capacity, but not that much, and the Metro will replace few if any bus routes.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Special_K »

I believe that there was a study about 18 years ago that looked at the option of relocating Willoughby Depot to the Artarmon insustrial area. Even back then the area was so congested that buses would have had excessive delays in entering and leaving the precinct.

The Willoughby Depot site would easily transform into tasteful apartments!

People used to ring the depot, complaining that it actually existed in their midst. My response would be that perhaps they would prefer its previous use, which was a tannery! Suprisingly, the real estate ads do not state "close to bus depot"

As Ray pondered, time will tell the long term future of M depot.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Linto63 »

Special_K wrote: The Willoughby Depot site would easily transform into tasteful apartments!
I'm sure the natives would be very happy to be rid of it, but then they would probably not be too happy with the skyscraper that a Harry Triguboff would whack up in its place. Bit of a case of love the one your with.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Swift »

Special_K wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:57 pm
Willoughby route 273 express working would see you on a First Stop Frenchman's Road grinding up the Freeway with a full standing load. The Leyland Worldmaster "Mono" crawling to a walking speed on the grade, where even the cyclists could overtake!
The AEC Regal IVs must have been horrible then, as a former Y driver mentioned how people had to get off some early into the city so it could make it up the hill to the terminus! He said M's Worldmasters were fantastic.
Do you know when M's last Worldmaster was withdrawn? 83 or 84?

Those professional whiners calling the depot were expecting it to close up shop just for them?
I hope they got a whiff of a collective cold start every weekday morning!
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by 3805 »

Remember driving the 265 and 269 routes with old 2440. Absolutely loved that old bus...slow, worn-out but it never let me down. Used to look after it like it was my own.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Swift »

3805 wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:59 pm Remember driving the 265 and 269 routes with old 2440. Absolutely loved that old bus...slow, worn-out but it never let me down. Used to look after it like it was my own.
The 265 was the one route I enjoyed taking a Scania on.
It always amused me being able to take those behemoths through such an obstacle course and get paid to do it.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by 3805 »

I have been driving trains for nearly 20 years now... but I still occasionally have dreams of being back at Willoughby driving buses... while being in NSW Trains uniform!
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Swift »

I still yearn to take out a MAN for a run. What some unkindly called a noddy, made the nicest beefy engine note when being driven out of the depot with a stone cold engine. One of the perks of coming into work so early was hearing those taking off.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by 3805 »

Ah the good old Noddy Boxes. With their horrid Voith gearboxes. For some reason, the only one that I enjoyed driving was the very first one... was it 3253? Seemed to have been much smoother than the others.
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by tonyp »

When my dad worked as an engineer for the DGT in the 1950s, he'd spend quite a bit of time at Ryde (we lived nearby) and sometimes he would take me to work where I'd be let loose to clamber over buses and sit in the driver's seat at will while he worked. Clarrie Paull would afford me the same facility at Hunters Hill Bus Co depot nearby. The days before OH&S and liability - management would freak nowadays. He would bring home spectacular photos of tilt tests on double deckers on the apron at Ryde, in the days when having one of the behemoths fall over from time to time was an inevitable event. Failing to give way to a mobile crane and being impaled by the jib through the top deck was another event. Shop awnings were a dime a dozen. He used to have some rich words for the intelligence of some drivers!
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Re: Ode to Willoughby and Ryde

Post by Ray »

You could still walk into any UTA depot as late as the 80s. Which is what I did as a primary school kid at M and Y and N. I remember asking someone at N if I could take a photo and the response was a genial "naw, why would I mind? Look, there's a nice sunny one over there...that would be a good photo." But since he was pointing at a Leopard and I didn't like old buses, I went and photographed a Merc instead.

Y and M were easy. Just walked in and wandered around the stack for hours. Even at the M depot open day at 1992, I remember walking around the back of the 'active' yard which of course would be cordoned off these days.
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