NSW Bus Observations 2022.

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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Quite an episode on the bus today.

Was catching a Transdev John Holland bus a little earlier. I wont disclose details to keep the driver anonymous, but anyways, the driver had stopped at a stop right before a traffic light intersection. Pax boarded, the door closed and the driver pulled a little away from the curb. Not a few seconds later, an angry middle aged woman is suddenly at the stop and started yelling at the driver to open the door as if its his fault. The driver initially tried ignoring, but when she got louder he just said “sorry, its too late, wait for the next one”. The shouting match continued, the driver refused to budge. I could hear some profanity from the lady, but luckily soon the traffic light turned green and we headed off.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Aurora »

Not unusual behaviour. Good to see the driver did not encourage the tardiness by letting her know she was too late.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Randomness »

Could be a Transdev thing? Noticed all the South Granville drivers in region 13 do the same, but various depots in TSA's region 3 let people on.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Merc1107 »

It really depends on the situation. Once you shut the doors, put the blinker on, and most importantly, begin moving out of the stop, you're fairly committed to pulling into traffic. A passenger that comes out of nowhere and starts banging on the doors is not only risking being hit by the bus (i.e. tailswing if not completely flattened), but is potentially risking the bus being rear-ended or side-swiped - and the operator copping the blame because they'd left the "insurable footprint" of the bus stop (I've heard this excuse used for security not assisting a bus - i.e. it was not at a bus stop, therefore, security are powerless). At busier stops this also impacts on the flow of buses. In the situation described you're risking a stream of stragglers continuing to try and pile on when the light turns green again - and there's nothing that can be done to stop such a situation.

So really it's just entitled behaviour that preys (or gambles) on the good nature of some operators. Compare this to modes like trains or trams, where once the doors shut, you're completely out of luck. Load and go is also the practice employed at the Perth Busport - although this is more a product of the dynamic stand allocation system and needing to ensure a stand allocated for the next service isn't unnecessarily held up by stragglers.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Aurora wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:20 pm Not unusual behaviour. Good to see the driver did not encourage the tardiness by letting her know she was too late.
Exactly and I lost sympathy for her when she started swearing at the driver. It’s really never ok to act like that. Plus, safety, if he opened the door while pulled a bit away from the curb and the light turned green, it could’ve turned ugly
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Swift »

They shouldn't place stops like that in the first place, putting drivers in that position. Silly would be passenger risks injury and will likely hold the bus up enough to miss that light and the cycle repeats. What a selfish oaf. Plenty more like her.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by hugh45 »

I was in a similar situation last week. The bus I wanted to board had left the bus stop and was stopped at the traffic lights. The driver refused to let me board when I knocked on the door. I accepted his refusal to let me board the bus, but I did note that it had left the bus stop before that it was timed to leave. The bus was a Transit Systems bus at Kogarah.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Swift »

You shouldn't even be asking. I can't say I wouldn't try it on though lol, but certainly wouldn't get petulant on the driver's rightful refusal.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by tonyp »

The new services in Shoalhaven have (I guess, because I've been out to make any observation) started today. Nothing has changed in the timetable conflicts between Transport Info and Nowra Coaches. On 102, Transport Info tells us there are no buses doing the complete Park Drive loop in Sanctuary Point, while Nowra Coaches new tt tells us there are. On 106, Transport Info tells us there's a new service to Nowra Hill, Nowra Coaches tt tells us there isn't. I haven't checked the tts of other operators. One wouldn't want to be an innocent passenger wandering out to the bus stop in anticipation in the circumstances.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by J_Busworth »

tonyp wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:56 am The new services in Shoalhaven have (I guess, because I've been out to make any observation) started today. Nothing has changed in the timetable conflicts between Transport Info and Nowra Coaches. On 102, Transport Info tells us there are no buses doing the complete Park Drive loop in Sanctuary Point, while Nowra Coaches new tt tells us there are. On 106, Transport Info tells us there's a new service to Nowra Hill, Nowra Coaches tt tells us there isn't. I haven't checked the tts of other operators. One wouldn't want to be an innocent passenger wandering out to the bus stop in anticipation in the circumstances.
I wouldn’t take the maps shown on Transport Info to be correct. They often pick the shortest path between two stops rather than the path the buses actually take. This is a particularly big issue in hail and ride areas like the Shoalhaven as buses often take circuitous routes between timetables stops and those stops aren’t close together.

I’d take what’s happening in Nowra Coaches timetables to be correct. Plenty of issues in Transport’s data that I’ve picked up over the past couple of days.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by boronia »

From SMH:
Bus drivers in Sydney’s inner west to strike on Wednesday
By Matt O'Sullivan

Up to 1100 bus drivers in Sydney’s inner west and south will strike for six hours on Wednesday due to a dispute with a private bus operator over pay and conditions.

Members of two unions who drive for Transit Systems on routes in a contract area known as region six will strike from 4am to 7am, and from 2.30pm to 5.30pm on Wednesday. Region six covers an area stretching from Rockdale in the south, to Olympic Park, the inner west and parts of the CBD.
TWU State Secretary Richard Olsen.

TWU State Secretary Richard Olsen.Credit:Kate Geraghty

The bus strike will hit commuters on the same day as rail workers refuse to operate foreign-built trains, which will cause massive disruptions across Sydney’s rail network.

Transport Workers Union state secretary Richard Olsen said members wanted new drivers to operate under the same pay and conditions as those who had been employed for some time.

“We have been attempting to reach agreement with the company for 15 months,” he said.

The TWU and the Rail Tram and Bus Union, whose members also drive for Transit Systems, are seeking pay rises of 4 per cent a year over the term of a new agreement.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Swift »

They knew the score. They're being toddlers.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Merc1107 »

Given 15 months of negotiations, one gets the impression there are bigots on both sides of the fence here (note - I would consider that the correct usage of "the b word"). These parties only end up hurting everyone - strikes and other industrial action are precipitated, workers may be denied the introduction of parts of an agreement that would be beneficial to all, reputations are harmed (individuals and the collective) and the workplace itself (i.e. morale, relationships) begins to disintegrate.

From all that catastrophe, eventually the parties involved will be dragged together by FairWork to learn whatever this week's buzzphrases in EA negotiation are :roll:

Perhaps instead of demanding reversion to the old agreement, they need to scrap both the TSA & STA agreements, and make something fair and equitable for everyone. I'm not a full bottle on how the STA worked, but those I know personally who worked with the STA up to the end describe a system of remuneration so complex that not even the STA knew how it actually worked in practice ... so perhaps turning all that minutiae into improved penalties or base wages that benefit the majority would be an overall improvement.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Swift »

I think that was deliberately ambiguous and nobody wants that changed.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Minor observations

5149 MO from Hunter Valley buses Edgeworth has now gone full TNSW Livery, no longer Canary Yellow

TV 2089 from Forest was at Edgeworth Depot yesterday, not deregistered yet as it still has it's yellow plates and not parked in the graveyard section of the depot but parked in a nearby garage that I could see from the street.

8511 MO spotted heading towards Thornton Depot 8:30 AM yesterday Morning, Costal liner branded but still in TNSW Livery. I believe it was heading to Thornton for a service as I've seen a few Costal Liners go to & from Thornton for inspection but not as a Transfer (Yet).
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tonyp
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by tonyp »

J_Busworth wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:19 am I wouldn’t take the maps shown on Transport Info to be correct. They often pick the shortest path between two stops rather than the path the buses actually take. This is a particularly big issue in hail and ride areas like the Shoalhaven as buses often take circuitous routes between timetables stops and those stops aren’t close together.

I’d take what’s happening in Nowra Coaches timetables to be correct. Plenty of issues in Transport’s data that I’ve picked up over the past couple of days.
I've confirmed that what is in Nowra Coaches tts is correct, but it's not all the public passenger services and I've suggested to them that they list all services available to the public in the tts. The reason they're not in the tts to date is that previously they were exclusively school services, but the buses have been fitted with ticket machines, so now they're available for general use as route buses.

Notably, by this means, route service has been opened up to the suburb of Nowra Hill, the last significant part of the Nowra urban area not served by route buses. The services are as follows, weekdays, school terms only.

Route 402AM. Departs Yalwal Road, West Nowra, 0740 Cabbage Tree Lane, Nowra Hill, clockwise Stringybark Road, Cabbage Tree Lane, Albatross Road and St Johns School, 0840 arrives Nowra High School, Moss St, 0845 St Michaels School, Shoalhaven Street, terminates 0850 Nowra Public School, Plunkett Street, Nowra.

Route 412AM. 0817 Cabbage Tree Lane, Nowra Hill, thence same route as 402AM, 0856 arrives Nowra Public School, Plunkett Street, Nowra.

Route 106. 1557 Departs Nowra High School via Stocklands, Stewart Place, Shoalhaven Hospital, West Nowra to Nowra Hill, finishing about 1645 (listed in both Nowra Coaches and TfNSW tts).

These are operated by artics, except 412AM. I suspect that Nowra would be the only place in Australia outside capital cities served by artics as route buses.
Last edited by tonyp on Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:49 pm I suspect that Nowra would be the only place in Australia outside capital cities served by artics as route buses.
Not only that, but if my sleuthing is correct, they seemed to have had quite a few expats from Darwin in their midst over the years (all four of the MAN SG220Hs, a Volvo B10M and even an ex. demonstrator SG192 that did the rounds early in life :D )
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:00 pm Not only that, but if my sleuthing is correct, they seemed to have had quite a few expats from Darwin in their midst over the years (all four of the MAN SG220Hs, a Volvo B10M and even an ex. demonstrator SG192 that did the rounds early in life :D )
They had some ex Adelaide artics too iirc. All gone I think, only the five 2017 Volgren-bodied Scanias now. As immaculate as when they were new.


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Correction: there may be one old Volvo artic left, 2408 MO.
Last edited by tonyp on Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:33 pm Correction: there may be one old Volvo artic left, 2408 MO.
If it's the same one as noted on my list of Darwin buses, that's ex. 62 (mo8-062).
tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:33 pm They had some ex Adelaide artics too iirc. All gone I think, only the five 2017 Volgren-bodied Scanias now. As immaculate as when they were new
Is that a good cleaning/maintenance regime, or a workforce that takes a high level of pride in their work?
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:43 pm Is that a good cleaning/maintenance regime, or a workforce that takes a high level of pride in their work?
Fleet flagship syndrome I'd say (along with the long-distance Irizars). All shipshape and Bristol fashion, regardless of the best efforts of the little sprogs on the school runs. They even have some device up the back that detects whether there are any kids left on board at the end of the run!
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by 1whoknows »

Ballarat in Victoria also saw the use of artics on route service - ex Tsukaba Expo Volvos - mainly used on the run out to the uni at Mt Helen.
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

1whoknows wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:19 am Ballarat in Victoria also saw the use of artics on route service - ex Tsukaba Expo Volvos - mainly used on the run out to the uni at Mt Helen.
Would they be the Fuji bodied Volvo B10MLs from 1984 Busways had a small number of them until 1997
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by Merc1107 »

Swift wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:27 am I always thought those things were very strange looking.
A lot seem to have had fairly extensive work done over their lives, although the first thing I thought when looking at a more original examples was they appeared as though they could be configured to be driven from either end (stop looking at me like that :mrgreen: ).
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by boronia »

Typical Japanese commuter bus body design of the 1980s (which hasn't changed much today).

They weren't permitted on roads there back then, they had special Bus 0nly lanes from the local station to the Expo site. I was in Japan at the time, so I got to ride in a couple.

After the Expo, a few remained in Tokyo for use on city-airport shuttles, which ran entirely on motorways. I rode one again in 1989.

I saw one in Sydney earlier this week, maybe Kingsgrove B&C?? How many other 37 year old buses still earning their keep?
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Re: NSW Bus Observations 2022.

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:53 am
Swift wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:27 am I always thought those things were very strange looking.
A lot seem to have had fairly extensive work done over their lives, although the first thing I thought when looking at a more original examples was they appeared as though they could be configured to be driven from either end (stop looking at me like that :mrgreen: ).
Some of the bus designs coming out of Europe in the 1950s and 60s had the rear end looking as posh as the front end, so they looked almost like a double ended bus.

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