Pay no more than 2 zones

[busdriver12]

Spotted this tweet from Mark McGowan's twitter account today - interesting.

Mandurah to Perth for $4.90

[Merc1107]

A great initiative, but it wouldn't surprise me of those banging the 'it costs too much!' drum find a new problem to whinge about in lieu of complaining about the fare. Hoping this idea helps boost numbers, though.

[Bus Suggestions]

...But then Bayswater to Maylands for $4.90 as well. The distance range served by the same fare (Bayswater-Maylands 2.2 km vs later Yanchep-Mandurah ~120 km) is then quite large and not very fair to inner suburbs dwellers.

As an aside (feel free to remove this section if it is thought too off-topic), I'd say the fare cap should be half the number of zones, rather than 2 zones. This way, the fares are more balanced between the outer and inner suburbs. This would help in shortening the distance range paid by the fare cap, and mean that only around 50% of people would pay the same fare, rather than ~75% in the plan above, thus making the fares fairer (pun unintended). Of course, since 9 is indivisible by 2, it would mean round-up to a 5 zone fare cap.

Or why not just make the fares under the current system cheaper rather than try and rework it? Or perhaps, for starters, make the fares just simpler, rounded to the nearest 50 cents? It would at least make them simpler to pay....

[wltzx]

I feel that the fare cap should be 3 zones; if zones 2 and 3 were merged and zones 4 to 9 became a single zone, there would still be great reductions in costs to commuters while still making fares fairer (pun intended) and simpler to calculate; passengers travelling from Stirling to the City would not be paying the same fare as someone travelling from Butler to the City.

If zones 2 and 3 were merged and both paid the current 2 zone fare while zones 4 to 9 paid the current 3 zone fare, there would still be great cost reductions - a Byford resident commuting to the city 250 days a year would save $440 a year instead of $800, while a Mandurah resident commuting 250 days a year to the city would save $2200 instead of $2560. These adjustments furthermore would cost the Budget less in the long run, which would be helpful as iron ore prices begin to fall.

[TP1462]

Also announced support for Apple/Google Pay its unclear if you’ll be able to store your smartrider digitally within Apple Wallet or Google Pay, I store nearly all of my cards on my phone including my RAC membership just missing smartrider and my HBF it’s more secure and is more better for the environment with less plastic waste


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[Enviro 500]

I think they should introduce distance based fares instead of zone pricing. If you look at 517, it costs more to travel from Thornlie to Southern River but cheaper to travel further towards Leeming because Southern River is in Zone 3 while Thornlie and Leeming are in Zone 2. By right, the distance between Thornlie and Leeming is greater than that between Thornlie and Southern River.

[Merc1107]

Also announced support for Apple/Google Pay its unclear if you’ll be able to store your smartrider digitally within Apple Wallet or Google Pay, I store nearly all of my cards on my phone including my RAC membership just missing smartrider and my HBF it’s more secure and is more better for the environment with less plastic waste

Less waste - offset by the need to frequently upgrade phone to maintain functionality, and zero redundancy if your phone packs up or gets stolen (many people are incredibly clumsy and careless with their phones!).

I'd prefer the option of a card, I think

[perthbus]

Which would great to see some All Over Adverts (AOA’s) promoting this and its benefits and other TP products - destinations, tickets/fares etc.

We have all these moving ‘billboards’ driving around the City and Metropolitan area, being seen by tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, kinda baffles me why TP don’t take advantage of this and promote their products more (such as the benefits of a Familyrider, most of which are clueless about, it offers excellent value for money). Why can’t we have heritage liveries for example, like the STA introduced a few years back. Major rail network outages (Such as the upcoming Fremantle line works) could be displayed on AOA’s to promote not only the world, but the benefits they’ll bring to the wider PT users. Things like AOA’s with ferry images on the side to promote catching it to the Perth Zoo, could even do a series of them featuring different Zoo animals. Adverts promoting the Optus Stadium services and the routes they operate, there could be a whole series of them too. AOA’s promoting 658/659 services on Fremantle contract buses for example.

The Swan buses that wore the recent Movember moustaches was a glowing example of this.

It’s all about increasing awareness, ridership, promoting the benefits of public transport and attracting people that wouldn’t ordinarily catch it.

[verbatim9]

While I think there is need for further fare reform I don't think a two zone system would be appropriate. The inner core ends up subsidising the outer core even more. It's better to have a distance based system with capping or the current zonal one in place. Public Holiday Caps and Weekend Caps irrespective where you live would be good. 30% smart rider discounts instead of 20%

[The Phonj]

The desire is obviously to reduce the fare costs for those travelling extended distances. Fair enough. One disadvantage with a zonal fare structure is where there is a hard zone boundary, it can cost an extraordinary amount of money to travel short distances, providing that the travel is over a zone boundary.

From memory, Perth has 9 zones. I would propose reducing it to 5 zones, with the existing even numbered zones becoming buffer zones. This will have the added benefit of increasing the size of all zones, including zone 1, and reducing the fares to those travelling extended distances. Wins all around as far as I can see!

[Enviro 500]

While I think there is need for further fare reform I don't think a two zone system would be appropriate. The inner core ends up subsidising the outer core even more. It's better to have a distance based system with capping or the current zonal one in place. Public Holiday Caps and Weekend Caps irrespective where you live would be good. 30% smart rider discounts instead of 20%

The desire is obviously to reduce the fare costs for those travelling extended distances. Fair enough. One disadvantage with a zonal fare structure is where there is a hard zone boundary, it can cost an extraordinary amount of money to travel short distances, providing that the travel is over a zone boundary.

I am in favour of abolishing hard zone boundaries and putting in place a distance-based fare structure similar to the one currently in use in Singapore. It works a lot better for routes like 517 that currently traverse from zone 2 to zone 3 and back to zone 2.

[Bus-1809]

Which would great to see some All Over Adverts (AOA’s) promoting this and its benefits and other TP products - destinations, tickets/fares etc.

We have all these moving ‘billboards’ driving around the City and Metropolitan area, being seen by tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, kinda baffles me why TP don’t take advantage of this and promote their products more

The answer lies in what we were discussing off this forum the other day

Realistically, Zone 1 through to 3 should be the new Zone 1 and Everything 4 to 8 as Zone 2. Services beyond Mandurah could even possibly have an extra surcharge.

Also Day Rider time restrictions need to be looked at too. Abolish the Before 9am rubbish, so that people can actually make use of the damn things.

[Merc1107]

One disadvantage with a zonal fare structure is where there is a hard zone boundary, it can cost an extraordinary amount of money to travel short distances, providing that the travel is over a zone boundary.

Every bus route (or even train) that crosses a zone boundary is an example of this. With SmartRider, if you make a return journey (i.e. within 2hrs) across a zone boundary, but within the 2-section ticket limit of travel, you will be charged a 2-section fare for the initial part of the journey, with the fare made-up to the 2-zone price upon completion of the return leg of the journey. Whereas it is perfectly acceptable to buy two 2-section tickets to accomplish the same return journey. The saving of using 2-section tickets*, 50¢ for standard ($4.90 - (2 x $2.20)) or 10¢ for concession ($2.10 - (2 x $1)) may seem inconsequential to most, but it could add up for a regular public transport user.

* Calculated on the cash fare price, without consideration of the 10-20% discounts that can apply based on the use of SmartRider

A big area for improvement on the Transperth network is improving off-peak patronage. During this time, driving is quick, parking is easy (and often free), whereas public transport is often slow and pricier. Would issuing periodical tickets be a way to make public transport more attractive outside peak periods?

For example, sell a SmartRider autoload option that covers the cost of an 'average' commute from the proposed Zone 1 or 2 to the city for a fixed period**. Being that we consumers are not the rational beings economists think we are, we'll apply the sunk cost fallacy to this fare option, and wish to maximise the utility we gain from purchasing the periodical, much like the fixed costs of car ownership can be a compelling reason to keep driving. In theory that should translate to using public transport outside of the regular commute. The consumer might perceive this in one of two ways - first, the cost of commuting was paid for, and any additional journeys are 'free'. Or, they might instead consider each additional journey lowers the incremental cost (i.e. 50 journeys on a $100 periodical equates to $2/journey. 100 journeys equates to $1/journey).

** As Transperth seem to be able to monitor use/abuse of concession SmartRiders, they could apply the same technology here to someone's regular commute to ensure they use the correct periodical