Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Brisbane / QLD Transport Discussion

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L433
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:15 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by L433 »

Is Toowong covering for Carina? Route 61 (Maroon CityGlider) is not in Toowong Depot's route list.
[/quote]

T1022 was servicing the 172 route yesterday (Sunday)
Cazza
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by Cazza »

T2857 running a 35-odd minute late outbound 124.
daveeyh
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

E1665 is now a CityGlider.
daveeyh
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

E2832 back in standard livery.
qut391
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:47 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

daveeyh wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:18 pm E2832 back in standard livery.
Spotted in on Route 60 tonight.
Cazza
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by Cazza »

2820 appears to be back at Toowong.

https://youtu.be/OOxYV9Rr940 (24:45)

Laying over at Chermside yesterday sporting the T badge about to start a 333. Does that mean more ex-Gliders will make their way back to Toowong now that the bendies are almost only running on Route 60?
qut391
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:47 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

Cazza wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:35 am 2820 appears to be back at Toowong.

https://youtu.be/OOxYV9Rr940 (24:45)

Laying over at Chermside yesterday sporting the T badge about to start a 333. Does that mean more ex-Gliders will make their way back to Toowong now that the bendies are almost only running on Route 60?
Back at Toowong since late July.

Other ex CityGliders are still at Eagle Farm.
verbatim9
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:20 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by verbatim9 »

I have noticed when I caught the 370 bus last Saturday that the bus driver was letting people on and off through the front door. It makes a lot of difference having the front door operational again together with the rear door.

And behold BCC in partnership with Translink announced today all BCC services are all door boarding.

https://twitter.com/NewsTalk4BC/status/ ... 0522165248
Merc1107
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by Merc1107 »

That's a great little development.
daveeyh
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

Can't disagree more about all door boarding.

Since rear door boarding only was introduced, the level of fare evasion has soared - some services it is 20% of passengers who don't pay, At least when boarding was past the driver, there was some level of fare compiance. Services with a large number of school students, this can be 40%.

In my experience, having passengers boarding at the front door and the majority of passengers exiting through the rear door is actually better for the flow of passengers and is FASTER. Buses are not like trains with big doors that allow multiple pepole to baord/a;ight at the same time.
Merc1107
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by Merc1107 »

I absolutely detest having to play Policeman over fares as low as a dollar. Drivers are not properly trained, protected (incl. In Law) or supported to manage fare evasion. In Brisbane the drivers don't even have a cage. One might make some miscreant pay their dollar, then a rock gets thrown at the bus - and how much is a replacement window?
Fare evasion should be managed by the appropriately trained individuals, with sufficient powers granted to them to arrest miscreants as needed. The ticketing equipment is more than capable of having a function added to log fare evasion, to track where revenue officers need to be stationed.

Have done the all-door loading racket on very busy runs of varying sorts, and it's a Godsend, especially when there is a crowd sufficiently large to fill an artic. Although passenger's relative unfamiliarity with the concept sometimes sees them use the rear door(s) exclusively outside of special events.
tonyp
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

daveeyh wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:17 am Can't disagree more about all door boarding.

Since rear door boarding only was introduced, the level of fare evasion has soared - some services it is 20% of passengers who don't pay, At least when boarding was past the driver, there was some level of fare compiance. Services with a large number of school students, this can be 40%.

In my experience, having passengers boarding at the front door and the majority of passengers exiting through the rear door is actually better for the flow of passengers and is FASTER. Buses are not like trains with big doors that allow multiple pepole to baord/a;ight at the same time.
It's not the role of the driver to police fare evasion, nor is it safe for the driver to do so. This is the job of RPOs and it's the responsibility of the operator to ensure that there are enough of those.

The science of passenger flow and boarding on public transport has been studied for generations in various parts of the world and and the overwhelming conclusion is that all door boarding is superior to passenger flow. Not only does it result in faster passenger exchange, it also distributes the load better through the vehicle. We all know that a major curse of passenger flow is that passengers don't flow, they typically clog up the front of the bus and won't move down to the back, or take a long time to do so, slowing boarding at the front door.

https://vimeo.com/229560324

I suspect that the problem you've identified there in Brisbane is that the buses often have a single-leaf centre door, which is a poor choice on a city bus as it slows the flow right down. The minimum design standard should be for double-leaf doors. In Canberra where they have those terrible Bustechs and combos, the door is not only single leaf but has stairs too. If these obstacles are removed, the efficiency of the bus with all-door loading will be much improved. Brisbane has made the right decision and joins Adelaide and Canberra (and I believe Melbourne) in this advance. Perth has it on its CATs and event buses. Of the major cities, only Sydney - the city that needs it most - is holding out.
daveeyh
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

I never suggested that the driver be the policeman of fares = it is just much less likely for people to enter the bus without paying if they have to pass the driver - it is just so easy to walk on a bus through the back door and not tag on with zero embarrassment.
And unfortunately, in Brisbane, the Translink enforcement officers are virtually invisible on Brisbane buses which means fare-evasion is really zero risk.
I can only recall seeing a TTO on a bus twice this year and I travel on up to six bues a day and transit regularly through two of the busiest hubs (Cultural Centre and RBWH stations) every day. (Although, I do realise that trains are higher risk so that is where overwhelming focus is for TTOs.)

With rear door boarding, one of the major issues in Brisbane that causes delays is visibility into the bus. Brisbane buses have such a dark window tint (understandable for the climate) or have so many window advertisements that often makes it impossible for passengers awaiting to board to see if anyone is getting off. So you step on the bus only to have to get off again to let someone off.

I agree that all door boarding is great for large crowds moving in one direction - sports stadia, UQ Lakes, Eight Mile Plains, Teneriife Ferry, etc. I just don't see the same benefit where there are equal numbers of people moving in both directions.

One improvement that would help:

An outward facing electronic sign at each door (including front door) on the bus that lights up with "Passengers alighting" when the door opens AND someone on the bus had pressed the bell for that stop. This would indicate to boarding passengers that someone is likely to be getting off and to wait before stepping ono the bus.
tonyp
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by tonyp »

daveeyh wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:45 am
With rear door boarding, one of the major issues in Brisbane that causes delays is visibility into the bus. Brisbane buses have such a dark window tint (understandable for the climate) or have so many window advertisements that often makes it impossible for passengers awaiting to board to see if anyone is getting off. So you step on the bus only to have to get off again to let someone off.

I agree that all door boarding is great for large crowds moving in one direction - sports stadia, UQ Lakes, Eight Mile Plains, Teneriife Ferry, etc. I just don't see the same benefit where there are equal numbers of people moving in both directions.

One improvement that would help:

An outward facing electronic sign at each door (including front door) on the bus that lights up with "Passengers alighting" when the door opens AND someone on the bus had pressed the bell for that stop. This would indicate to boarding passengers that someone is likely to be getting off and to wait before stepping ono the bus.
It's all been measured and tested over the years, so all-door loading is well proven to have a clear advantage, thus is spreading from Europe, where it has been used for years, to areas like North America, SIngapore, Australia etc.

However, I agree with you that there must preferably be preconditions that enable it to work to its best potential, including:

Double leaf doors
No steps inside the bus
Clear vision for the driver (nowadays on new buses CCTV)
Ability for passengers to see clearly inside from outside and outside from inside of the vehicle (so no wrap on the doors)
Sensible crowd behaviour (not rushing the doors before people get off)
Card readers programmed for both entry and exit at every door
daveeyh
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

E1666 is now a Glider.
daveeyh
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

verbatim9 wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:20 pm I have noticed when I caught the 370 bus last Saturday that the bus driver was letting people on and off through the front door. It makes a lot of difference having the front door operational again together with the rear door.

And behold BCC in partnership with Translink announced today all BCC services are all door boarding.

https://twitter.com/NewsTalk4BC/status/ ... 0522165248
As of Monday, the "Rear Door Boarding Only" stickers had been taken off the front door of buses and the front seat is no longer taped off.

However, from my observations this week, 70% of drivers won't/don't open the front door - northside operators are most likely to open the front door whereas S and W operators almost never open the front door.
qut391
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

E1669 is on Route 60 today.
S1670 is still in clean skin and was running P137 this afternoon.
1of55
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by 1of55 »

E6002 has the fire system installed complete with ' Evacuate Bus ' sign like with all conventional BCC buses and also automatic customer counters over both doors.
qut391
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

E2833 is now in clean skin.
Megumi
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by Megumi »

1of55 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:08 pm E6002 has the fire system installed complete with ' Evacuate Bus ' sign like with all conventional BCC buses and also automatic customer counters over both doors.
Are you talking about the automatic counting system?
1of55
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 pm

Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by 1of55 »

Yes above both passenger doors. The fire detection system was not there when they first came into service. Unless I didn't notice it.
daveeyh
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by daveeyh »

E2835 is back in standard livery.
^^__^^
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by ^^__^^ »

T2893-2897 turning into S2893-2897
qut391
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

^^__^^ wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:06 pm T2893-2897 turning into S2893-2897
2892 as well
qut391
Posts: 147
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Re: Transport for Brisbane Observations 2021

Post by qut391 »

C5026 covered for a Toowong operating 199 this afternoon.

T2900 covered for 198 and 305 runs by Eagle Farm.
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