Other Body Builders Discussion / Observations

[ScaniaGrenda]

Article in Australasian Bus & Coach about King Longs Electric bus offerings.

https://www.busnews.com.au/product-news ... ectric-bus

[tonyp]

Article in Australasian Bus & Coach about King Longs Electric bus offerings.

https://www.busnews.com.au/product-news ... ectric-bus

I inspected this at the Bus Expo. Massive stairs up to high floor at the back. Another dud.

[Campbelltown busboy]

I've traveled on King Long bodied buses built on a Deawoo chassis this would be a 6125AG with batteries on the roof which is would be better then the King long 6125AG bodied Deawoos that Interline have

[MotorOmnibus8562]

First Scania Electric Bus in service (for those who can access facebook):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3594063 ... 1465348006

[tonyp]

First Scania Electric Bus in service (for those who can access facebook):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3594063 ... 1465348006

Probably should be under Bustech topic as the bodybuilder as Scania is only a chassis.

Extraordinarily, though a fully low floor, stepless chassis, Bustech has put a high floor with stairs at the back. Beyond words. Feel sorry for Scania having one of the best features of their design being buried by a bumbling bodybuilder in the inaugural complete product. They were going to have a demonstrator built with a Volgren body. I haven't seen that emerge anywhere.

[ScaniaGrenda]

For those not part of the group, can the photo please be shared here?

[tonyp]

The story is here:

https://www.busnews.com.au/scania-deliv ... australia/

Bustech have unnecessarily put batteries under the floor, hence the high floor. Passenger capacity only 50, 280 km range. Probably a decent basic chassis kit, stuffed by the bodybuilder. Would be good to see with a Volgren body to see if they can make a better fist of it. Element is still clearly in the lead, with BZL close behind (depending on the body).

For those not part of the group, can the photo please be shared here?

I wouldn't feel at liberty to post somebody else's photos, but it looks like any Bustech from the outside. Inside, rear door is stepless but then three steps inside up to the back floor. In typical Bustech fashion there seem to be at least a couple of seats where the windowline is so high that seated passengers couldn't see out the window.

[boronia]

For those not part of the group, can the photo please be shared here?

Perhaps you could become part of the group?

[Merc1107]

Bustech have unnecessarily put batteries under the floor, hence the high floor. Passenger capacity only 50, 280 km range.

Only 280km range, even with all that extra battery gear? That'd be pushing it on a longer straight shift! I'd say without the extra batteries they'd be lucky to get two halves of a shift done on a full charge.

Perhaps Bustech need to go back to the drawing board - or perhaps the Scania running gear is a bit heavier on power than the competition?

[tonyp]

Only 280km range, even with all that extra battery gear? That'd be pushing it on a longer straight shift! I'd say without the extra batteries they'd be lucky to get two halves of a shift done on a full charge.

Perhaps Bustech need to go back to the drawing board - or perhaps the Scania running gear is a bit heavier on power than the competition?

Yes, something doesn't add up. Element and BZL have much more range with batteries just on the roof. They should have bought Elements or BZLs and not let Bustech near the latter.

[ScaniaGrenda]

For those not part of the group, can the photo please be shared here?

Perhaps you could become part of the group?

No fault of the submitter of the pictures but perhaps we could refrain from concealing it behind a barrier? (Something which I've talked about in the past but was laughed off as usual on that).

I don't meet the requirements to join the group and only use FB for my page (They won't allow pages to join) and like to keep a low personal profile, I'm sure the admins would take my personal profile for a bot given the lack of activity on it but that's simply my choice and decision of how I use the website.

I wouldn't feel at liberty to post somebody else's photos, but it looks like any Bustech from the outside.

Fair enough decision, I'd argue if it wasn't in a locked Facebook group there's really nothing stopping anyone from sharing it even if the submitter asks not too, can't really control what people do with your media once you've uploaded to face the public online.

[tonyp]

Fair enough decision, I'd argue if it wasn't in a locked Facebook group there's really nothing stopping anyone from sharing it even if the submitter asks not too, can't really control what people do with your media once you've uploaded to face the public online.

OK you've twisted my arm, but I hope I don't upset the photo's author, who is acknowledged here.

For a start, from Scania publicity, how the bus looks up the back with a European body. Obviously the third door couldn't be done in Australia because it's on the wrong side and the drive train and electronics tower are on the Australian kerbside.







The rear of the Bustech body (Pete Donaldson photo):

The other issue (in both European and Australian versions) is that, like the N series, that tower up the back kills off two seats.

[ScaniaGrenda]

I think the idea of a "low entry" bus is so ingrained into our mass-transit Industry that asking for it to be changed is wishful thinking. I know your probably expecting "Custom Denning" levels of wanting to see a low floor step free ZEB, although honestly we prove time and time again we're not ready to be adaptive and not ready to challenge the stigma.

Mercedes if they ever wanted too (And chose to come back) could create an E-Citaro Chassis for the Oceania Market and we'd still find a way to unnecessarily redesign it by adding redundant components (highfloor at rear) and ancient designs.

That Scania BEV Bustech layout is so akin to the ZDI's in Newcastle it's not funny (I'm tall-ish) and the height of the which the rear sits on is infuriating. Don't forget Bustech also reintroduced the rear door step in the ZDI's. Failure.

Thank you for sharing.

[Lt. Commander Data]

For people who don't have Facebook, here are some photos of 5801 on another website: https://transphoto.org/vehicle/580687/#n770647

Very disappointing not to have low floor through to the rear

[tonyp]

For people who don't have Facebook, here are some photos of 5801 on another website: https://transphoto.org/vehicle/580687/#n770647

Very disappointing not to have low floor through to the rear

As I once recommended for NSW's uncomfortable Oscar trains, send it to Uzbekistan where it might be appreciated.

But wait .... even their buses are more advanced than ours!



These Russian enthusiasts compile excellent databases. From the same site, the list of all manufacturers of battery-electric buses:

https://transphoto.org/models.php?t=9

Good to see a single Australian company represented.

[Enviro 500]

First Scania Electric Bus in service (for those who can access facebook):
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3594063 ... 1465348006

Probably should be under Bustech topic as the bodybuilder as Scania is only a chassis.

Extraordinarily, though a fully low floor, stepless chassis, Bustech has put a high floor with stairs at the back. Beyond words. Feel sorry for Scania having one of the best features of their design being buried by a bumbling bodybuilder in the inaugural complete product. They were going to have a demonstrator built with a Volgren body. I haven't seen that emerge anywhere.

I wish to see this bus enter service in Singapore. Unfortunately the authorities there favour BYD and Zhongtong ones.

https://landtransportguru.net/lta-elect ... ment-2023/

[tonyp]

I wish to see this bus enter service in Singapore. Unfortunately the authorities there favour BYD and Zhongtong ones.

https://landtransportguru.net/lta-elect ... ment-2023/

Singapore is now looking at 3 door low floor buses and there are hardly any manufacturers who can supply an electric chassis for 3 doors in RHD - mainly Chinese. Although the Scania is a 3 door low floor chassis, it's LHD and the tower in the back corner prevents any opportunity for moving the back door over the other side. Singapore have one Volvo BZL where they've managed to get the back door on the left side, but they could only get a single leaf. They have another better one from Linkker in Finland. The Swedes and Germans are generally on the back foot with electric chassis. They don't have the experience in electric buses that the Czechs, Poles, eastern Europeans and Chinese have. It's a good opportunity for Custom Denning if they're willing to take it on, because I think the Element can readily be adapted for 3 doors in RHD.

[ScaniaGrenda]

ARCC Hydrogen bus is visiting illawarra for a short trial, will be operating on the Gong.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/i ... -bus-trial

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8qeubj

Perhaps a certain ATDB resident close to the area is keen on checking out out?

Spoiler, no flat floor for you!

[Fleet Lists]

It is 9730MO which shows in the fleet lists as having been at Red Bus earlier this year.

It is being tracked as "Unknown LAF Unknown ARCC (9730 / 9730MO)"

[tonyp]

It is 9730MO which shows in the fleet lists as having been at Red Bus earlier this year.

It is being tracked as "Unknown LAF Unknown ARCC (9730 / 9730MO)"

I'm continuing this particular discussion to the NSW electric buses thread because we're moving right away from the Adelaide bus.

viewtopic.php?p=1105398#p1105398

[alleve]

Fair enough decision, I'd argue if it wasn't in a locked Facebook group there's really nothing stopping anyone from sharing it even if the submitter asks not too, can't really control what people do with your media once you've uploaded to face the public online.

OK you've twisted my arm, but I hope I don't upset the photo's author, who is acknowledged here.

For a start, from Scania publicity, how the bus looks up the back with a European body. Obviously the third door couldn't be done in Australia because it's on the wrong side and the drive train and electronics tower are on the Australian kerbside.







The rear of the Bustech body (Pete Donaldson photo):


Scania elec2.jpg


The other issue (in both European and Australian versions) is that, like the N series, that tower up the back kills off two seats.

Good lord the windowline... good luck seeing where to get off

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

It is 9730MO which shows in the fleet lists as having been at Red Bus earlier this year.

That's odd. I watched a 7 News story the other day which claimed that "This vehicle [the ARCC Hydrolight with Premier Illawarra] will operate alongside another hydrogen fuel cell vehicle already being trialled on the Central Coast".

As far as I know, the Red Bus trial ended quite some time ago. Perhaps 7 News skimped a bit on their preparatory research.

[Merc1107]

Perhaps 7 News skimped a bit on their preparatory research.

Have always considered 7 the worst for sensationalism and blatant misrepresentation of the facts, so that wouldn't surprise me one bit!

[MiCCROwavE_OVEN]

I did a bit of research on the new Scania C250EB Bustech VST-E for Adelaide - it's been hailed as the first battery-electric bus for Adelaide. What about the Bustech ZDi? From what I know, there were two demonstrator ZDi units operating in Adelaide for some time.

The Scania Product brochure claims that its vehicles can operate "in temperatures from -35°C to +40°, for all conditions up to 16% slopes, without compromising vehicle speed". I don't think Adelaide ever reaches 40+ temperatures, but if the C250EB is ordered by operators in NSW, QLD or the NT, this would undoubtedly cause some issues.

Unusually, the brochure also claims this for the electric motor:

"Battery capacity: 254 kWh or 330 kWh, Lithium-Ion (NMC)
8 or 10 battery packs placed 4 in rear and 4 or 6 on the roof"

The brochure does not seem to suggest that there are any full-low floor options for the C250EB chassis. Additionally, its range of 280km, even with the additional batteries, seems quite measly compared to the Element, which has almost double the range with 6 378kW battery packs.

And the final issue I have with the C250EB is that it has a service life of 'up to 10 years, depending on operating conditions'. That doesn't exactly seem very optimistic. Although the Element also comes with a 10 year warranty, the 'up to' concerns me. I'm a great fan of Scania diesel products in general, however this electric bus seems like it's designed to be replaced. Even if the C250EB gets Panel 3 approved in NSW, the only reason I can see any operators purchasing it would be brand loyalty.

[Merc1107]

And the final issue I have with the C250EB is that it has a service life of 'up to 10 years, depending on operating conditions'. That doesn't exactly seem very optimistic. Although the Element also comes with a 10 year warranty, the 'up to' concerns me.

Bit like Apple guaranteeing the batteries in their notebooks will stay beyond 80% capacity for 1000 cycles (or whatever their marketing is nowadays). The "Up to" is going to be based on how hard the batteries are cycled, the number of fast charges relative to overnight charges, operating temperatures, and the loads place on them by the motors.

I think the general consensus is the batteries will last about 8 years in general, be replaced, go another 8 years, maybe replaced again, and so on.