Electric Buses for Melbourne

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PaxInfo
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Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by PaxInfo »

Tweeted by Andrew Lund. Watch Nine News tonight at six for an announcement from Minister Ben Carroll.

https://twitter.com/andrew_lund/status/ ... 7070835712

$20m for 3 year trial, including a range of technologies.

More here: https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/investing-buses-future
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Tim Williams
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Tim Williams »

An excellent initiative if it happens, but I notice the Volgren demo unit is only a low entrance bus, whereas the electric MB Citaro is a full low floor bus, one of those is or was on trial in Singapore. Obviously there is no way of going to Singapore at present.

Double deckers lend themselves very well to full electric, even with all the additional technological clutter (under the staircase and other places) over 62 seats can be provided upstairs (on a 12.5mtr bus) + whatever downstairs seating and standees that can be accommodated, all of course full low floor.

Do have a look on the Wrightbus website to see what they are doing with hydrogen powered buses - all very exciting!
tonyp
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by tonyp »

Electric single deck citybuses are typically low floor, except the chassis that come from China. I think that Volgren is on a Chinese BYD chassis. (The Yutong model is a low floor chassis but the Australian version has a rear high floor, doh.) Hopefully they'll try harder next time. I hope nobody buys from China from now on. There are plenty of better alternatives from Europe.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Tim Williams »

Yes, I agree we should be buying European equipment and I am sure it would be better researched and developed. I have had experience of Chinese low entrance buses and they were a total nightmare!!

Whilst I am an old Pom, my favorite single decker is the MB Citaro and I have ridden on them extensively in Singapore and as I mentioned above there is or was an electric Citaro demonstrator there and I would expect that to be a very competent product and be customer friendly, as the conventional powered Citaros are.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by 385BUZ »

Here's a timely Australasian Bus and Coach link:

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... est-sought
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Tim Williams
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Tim Williams »

I could have a bit of fun with this, but I do happen to agree with tonyp's feelings about full low floor buses and this is something that I have only recently thought should be.

I am also older too and therefore full low floor buses are easier to negotiate.
Myrtone
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Myrtone »

How about trolleybuses?
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by 1whoknows »

Why would anyone bother with installing all of the wiring, sub stations etc necessary for traditional trolleybuses when the new generation of electric buses have all the same advantages and can be recharged at the depot? Much as I love traditional trolleybuses, the likelyhood of a new system appearing in Australasia is someowhere between zero and SFA. The only system being reinstated that I'm aware of is La Chaud du Fonds in Switzerland but in that case all the wiring etc was still in place from the previous system.
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1whoknows
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by 1whoknows »

However electric bus enthusiasts will soon have a chance to sample another one in Melbourne's north west. Stay tuned at the end of the month.
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Linto63
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Linto63 »

1whoknows wrote: The only system being reinstated that I'm aware of is La Chaud du Fonds in Switzerland but in that case all the wiring etc was still in place from the previous system.
There have been some new builds, e.g. Rome, and extensions to existing networks, e.g. Prague, but most cities have turned to battery powered EVs rather than trolleybuses to replace diesels.
tonyp
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by tonyp »

1whoknows wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:25 am Why would anyone bother with installing all of the wiring, sub stations etc necessary for traditional trolleybuses when the new generation of electric buses have all the same advantages and can be recharged at the depot? Much as I love traditional trolleybuses, the likelyhood of a new system appearing in Australasia is someowhere between zero and SFA. The only system being reinstated that I'm aware of is La Chaud du Fonds in Switzerland but in that case all the wiring etc was still in place from the previous system.
As I've just said in this post on NSW electric buses:

viewtopic.php?p=1086382#p1086382

there is a lot of trolleybus activity, including new services, still going on, but the picture is now far more complex, involving a range of solutions, often blended, including the fact that the modern trolleybus is also a battery bus. The solutions are very much city and location specific like, yes, the introduction of new trolleybus lines often tends to occur in cities where there are also trams, so the electric supply infrastructure is already largely in place.

The other fact - also location related - is that none of the spectrum of power supply solutions is definitely superior. It's horses for courses according to the circumstances and needs of a particular location and all the solutions have pluses and minuses and the best solution may be a blending of a couple of technologies. The much-vaunted battery-electric bus, while being highly flexible, has the disadvantages of weight, which affects passenger capacity and energy consumption, and downtime (which may not necessarily be an issue if the buses aren't needed overnight anyway). The trolleybus has disadvantages that we know about and so on for the various other solutions. Really best not to be dogmatic about electric bus technology and consider the best solutions for the particular need.

I do agree though that the battery bus is likely to be the most practical solution in Australia, but it comes at a capacity cost and this will lead to a need for a high-capacity electric bus (typically an artic), which will require some help from some of the other solutions because so far they are unable to run as 12 metre battery buses can and, if they could, the loss of capacity due to weight would wipe out most benefit from them.
BluDART
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by BluDART »

So the electric bus rollout was expanded upon this week beyond the 36 on order for Kinetic and Ventura's existing bus.
The 41 additional electric buses are spread amongst a few operators;
1x Latrobe Valley (Volvo BZL)
3x Seymour
3x Sunbury
8x CDCVic(Oakleigh)
26x Ventura (Ivanhoe, full depot conversion)
https://transport.vic.gov.au/about/tran ... l-victoria
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Fleet Lists »

Living in the Shire.
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1whoknows
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by 1whoknows »

The Sunbury one hasn't been in use for several weeks now - off the road like the Sydney ones due to the overseas battery fires.
However there has been another announcment that Transit Systems at Footscray is to get both electric and hydrogen buses.
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tonyp
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by tonyp »

From Custom Denning:
The first ever Custom Denning Element, sold outside of NSW was delivered to Sunbury Bus Wednesday 17th of August, with Victorian Sales Manager Peter Simpson having the honours of officially handing the bus over to Managing Director Matt Baird.
The first of 3 x Zero emission buses purchased by the DONRIC Group will be deployed into services within the Sunbury region and surrounding areas, introducing the local communities to the latest in ZEB technologies and innovations in Australian manufacturing, reducing carbon emissions and noise levels, whilst providing the highest levels of quality, comfort and safety, in a modern mode of transport.
Siemens charging equipment will be utilised in charging these buses, consisting of one Sicharge UC100 charger and 3 x Siemens floor mounted dispensers.
We are extremely excited and proud to be working with our delivery partners DONRIC group and PTV in this Victorian ZEB trial, and look forward to many years of successful collaboration in accelerating the transition towards Zero.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by 1whoknows »

All three have now arrived. The hydrogen Toyota from the bus show has also arrived in Melbourne and may be used on a trial.
In the meantime the idiot Government announces the Sunbury ones as the first for the state, completely or maybe just conveniently ignoring the one Transdev was running up and down Punt Road and elsewhere for well over a year.
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Linto63
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Linto63 »

Splitting hairs, but the first PTV has purchased rather than used, given that the BYD operated by Transdev appears to be owned by the operator having since moved to its Sydney operation.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by BAMBAM »

1whoknows wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:31 am All three have now arrived. The hydrogen Toyota from the bus show has also arrived in Melbourne and may be used on a trial.
In the meantime the idiot Government announces the Sunbury ones as the first for the state, completely or maybe just conveniently ignoring the one Transdev was running up and down Punt Road and elsewhere for well over a year.
Shhhhh, Transdev don't exist with the current government minds. They don't want to be reminded of their own bad mistake of giving out cheap contracts to operators.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

1whoknows wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:31 am All three have now arrived. The hydrogen Toyota from the bus show has also arrived in Melbourne and may be used on a trial.
The Japanese low floor bus market is very tiny here (only bus that comes to mind is now the Poncho from Hino) so It'll be nice to see the Toyota H2 bus getting a run for it's value & performance here instead of being ponied around just for show & tell and then possibly then being sent back to Japan because it's too "good" for our roads & operators. Toyota is already a well established brand & name and I'd put my faith in them to have done their homework on Hydrogen technologies and ensure it's not going to be a failure.

At least this one get's the TonyP seal of approval on being flat floor so Toyota knows somewhat not to be stupid and build using redundant designs.
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Linto63
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Linto63 »

BAMBAM wrote: Shhhhh, Transdev don't exist with the current government minds. They don't want to be reminded of their own bad mistake of giving out cheap contracts to operators.
Transdev was awarded its 7 year contract with a 3 year option by the Napthine Liberal government. The problems with buses not being maintained properly occurred during the Andrews Labor government's tenure resulting in the option to extend not being taken up. Although with Covid a couple of extensions were granted.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by Merc1107 »

In spite of that, it sounds like they're eager to sweep that era under the rug. Can't really blame them, I guess.
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Re: Electric Buses for Melbourne

Post by BanksfielderIdiot823 »

Slightly late, I know. But the BZL's now running, at least.
Routes 601 and 630.
Volgren all day, every day
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