WS Airport Metro

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Transtopic
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:54 pm The Telegraph certainly gets stuck into the NSW government if something is not right, but the difference from the SMH is that the Telegraph, in terms of the present government, commends things that are good and condemns things that are not, while the Herald continually emphasises only the bad with the Liberal government. The roles of the two newspapers have reversed over the last few decades. The Herald went down after the Fairfaxes lost control and the Telegraph has become more serious and professional in the last few years to take up the slack left by the Herald.

IA's acknowledgement of the project as part of a larger one was so brief you'd miss it if you blinked, yet it's a critical point. The other issue is that there needs to be a rail connection to the airport and western city right from the beginning to help it get going. We all know what historically happens when you kick off with a "temporary" bus connection, promising a rail link later. You and I have both lived through it. The temporary becomes permanent and the project languishes and withers and development is constrained for want of a good, fast, high-capacity transit connection. It's very much worth wearing what might be an initial poor cost-benefit in order to kick-start the project and enable it to grow and prosper. The line will come into its own after a few years at most. The KSA airport line would no doubt have also had a poor cost-benefit at the outset, but then came all the lineside development and economic activity that it generated. Green Square grew out of nothing because of the airport line. Before that, there was nothing there but dying factories. The same will happen out west.

IA's reference to "incompatible" line and rolling stock standards is also quite ignorant. It's very important to keep metro lines isolated from each other, otherwise we have the problems of the suburban system when something goes wrong. The initial Tallawong-Bankstown line and rolling stock was compromised to adapt to the constraints of the two major sections of legacy line it incorporated. With further new lines that don't incorporate legacy infrastructure, it's important to allow metro to adopt its own best standards without constraint. The line to the existing standards will be extended to Schofields and a new line with some different specifications according to its specific needs will pick up from there to Macarthur.
I'd suggest that the reason why the Telegraph gets stuck into the NSW Government and particularly Gladys on occasions, is because they consider it to be controlled by the moderate faction. In their eyes, they're Lefties, unlike their Federal counterparts. How you can suggest that the Telegraph has become more serious and professional in the last few years beggars belief. The only thing it's good for is wiping your arse. Claims that the SMH is left wing are overblown. They have also been accused of becoming more right wing, so make of that what you will. Good journalism demands critical comment of both sides of government where it's due and I certainly don't see that in the Murdoch press. You only have to look at the way they've rubbished the Labor States, while praising the Liberals, over the management of the Covid emergency.

Now let's cut to the chase. The only reason why the State government proposed the North-South link from the airport to St Marys, despite the lack of any evidence to justify it as the first priority, was to advance their metro agenda. They couldn't stomach the thought that the bleedingly obvious first priority to provide an early rail connection to the airport would be to extend the SWRL from Leppington as part of the existing network. The Western Sydney Rail Needs Scoping Study confirmed that the east-west options could potentially perform better than the North-South option as a first stage.

As the Metro West extension couldn't be completed for at least another decade or more until the link into the CBD is completed, that leaves the SWRL extension as the logical first stage. It also has other advantages in connecting with the broader rail network and existing established growth regions in the south-west, as well as a more direct and faster link with the CBD via the East Hills Line much sooner than would otherwise be the case.

It doesn't preclude the North-South link being constructed as later stages, whether as metro or as an extension of the existing network, which could include compatible automatic SD trains. As I keep saying, it's a matter of priorities. It may not please the development lobby, but who cares? They shouldn't be the sole determinates of transport policy. Established communities, particularly those without an existing rail service, also deserve improved transport infrastructure.

I don't think IA's reference to 'incompatible' lines and rolling stock standards is ignorant. They are merely stating the bleeding obvious. I would have thought that it would be an advantage in having through running from Metro Northwest to the new airport and beyond to Macarthur. It smacks of creating isolated sectors for future privatised operation, just as they're doing with the bus regions. The convenience for travellers of having cross regional transport connections without the need to change seems to have a low priority, instead favouring the interests and profitability of potential private operators.

I can't see how the initial Metro Northwest and rolling stock was compromised to adapt to the constraints of the converted Epping to Chatswood Rail Link. There were no constraints as the line which was only 10 years old and had straight platforms which required minor modifications including the installation of platform screen doors. The conversion of the Bankstown Line is a different matter, but it will still be adapted to allow through running by the existing Metro Northwest rolling stock.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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You have your strong views as do I and I disagree with all of the above. It's no use responding to any of that without it descending to a political bar room brawl which is not what the forum needs! It's also pointless having endless philosophical arguments about these projects when they're going ahead anyway because the Coalition is in power and seems likely to be for some time yet. The time for the next debate is when there is eventually a change in government and new policy directions are aired.

I have studied media analysis as part of my past education and I can see what is going on with any part of the media (of which I dip into several different sources daily). As a small transport example in the Telegraph that is clearly not political, they generally supported the CSELR project right through, but when it went into service with those slow journey times they got stuck into it savagely and quite rightly so. The Herald just sniped negatively at the project from beginning to end without giving it any credit.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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‘Not ideal’: NSW government warned rushed airport metro would lead to cost blow-out

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/not ... 57abh.html
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Newspaper/media reports are only as good as the knowledge of the author, and many authors lack factual knowledge of transport matters.

I got a laugh from this report in a Maroubra blog the other day:
The Region 9 bus service has one of the slowest services operated by the Sydney Metropolitan Bus. The State Transit bus line servicing the eastern suburbs depots in Maroubra, Bondi Junction, Botany, Mascot, Randwick and Surry Hills reportedly failed to reach its target running time more than 95 percent of the time in 2020.

From January 2020 to January 2021, Region 9 was among the most consistently slowest bus service, along with Transdev, except in November of last year. However, a representative from Transport for NSW said that the State Transit bus line improved its running time performance to 96.8 percent in 2020 from a slower running time performance of 95.2 percent in 2019.
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tonyp
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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boronia wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:17 am Newspaper/media reports are only as good as the knowledge of the author, and many authors lack factual knowledge of transport matters.

I got a laugh from this report in a Maroubra blog the other day:
Yes that was a great slow news day story, comparing the performance of bus regions that have all been generally performing above their KPI during the past year thanks to covid. So it was a competition between the very best, the best and the slightly best. The best and worst of the best. Moreover, the evil media empire that's said to be in the lap of the Liberal Party has been caught providing ammunition for the Labor Party. How dare they upset various media-bias narratives and conspiracy theories!
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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tonyp wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:52 am It's also pointless having endless philosophical arguments about these projects when they're going ahead anyway because the Coalition is in power and seems likely to be for some time yet.
How can you be so sure of that? Gladys and her cohorts are on the nose at present and there's certainly no guarantee that that they're a shoe-in for the next election with only a one seat majority.

With regard to the Western Sydney Airport rail links, the assessment by Infrastructure Australia can't be ignored. The NSW Government's business case is clearly deficient and hasn't adequately justified why the North-South metro option should be prioritised over the alternative East-West options, which includes extension of the SWRL from Leppington.

As the Commonwealth government is jointly funding this project, they may have something to say about the overblown cost estimates, compared with the much cheaper alternative, and IMO superior option, of extending the SWRL as the first priority. That doesn't preclude the North-South link as a later stage.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Transtopic wrote: Gladys and her cohorts are on the nose at present and there's certainly no guarantee that that they're a shoe-in for the next election with only a one seat majority.
.
That's Scott, not Gladys
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Transtopic wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:32 am How can you be so sure of that? Gladys and her cohorts are on the nose at present and there's certainly no guarantee that that they're a shoe-in for the next election with only a one seat majority.
They don't tend to be in agreance with you over at the SMH today:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/ten ... 57ajg.html
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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BroadGauge wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:21 pm
Transtopic wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:32 am How can you be so sure of that? Gladys and her cohorts are on the nose at present and there's certainly no guarantee that that they're a shoe-in for the next election with only a one seat majority.
They don't tend to be in agreance with you over at the SMH today:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/ten ... 57ajg.html
The next State election is still 2 years away and the current ICAC corruption inquiries have still to run their course.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Transtopic wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:35 pm The next State election is still 2 years away and the current ICAC corruption inquiries have still to run their course.
Perhaps the power of you wishing them defeated will do the job Transtopic! ;)
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:08 pm
Transtopic wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:35 pm The next State election is still 2 years away and the current ICAC corruption inquiries have still to run their course.
Perhaps the power of you wishing them defeated will do the job Transtopic! ;)
They won't need my assistance, they'll do it themselves.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newsl ... 01652d41c3

Western Sydney Airport metro: Narellan landowners stuck in limbo after ‘secretive’ rezoning

The extension of the Airport Metro to the Macarthur region will likely claim more than 100 properties as documents reveal dozens of addresses listed for government acquisition. FULL LIST
Jake McCallum
Jake McCallum
NewsLocal State Political Reporter

March 16, 2021 - 6:00AM
Macarthur Chronicle

NSW Government plans to extend the Sydney Metro Western Sydney Airport line from Badgerys Creek to Leppington and Macarthur reveal 125 properties are facing the wrecking ball.

Thousands of NSW Planning and Transport documents, released to the public after requests from One Nation MLC Mark Latham, revealed the surface section of the North South Rail Line corridor between Oran Park and the Western Sydney Airport would impact a total of 66 properties.

A further 37 properties between Leppington and the Bringelly Junction would be acquired or impacted by the extension of the South West Rail Link.

These include businesses such as the Australian Koi Farm at 83 Jersey Rd, Sydney Watergardens Nursery at 909 Bringelly Rd and Market Gardens around Robinson Rd, Bringelly.

One property owner in the firing line, who did not wish to be named, said he had “never been contacted or visited by the NSW Government”, despite NSW Planning identifying his property for acquisition as early as 2018.

An Ethos Urban report to the NSW Cabinet says properties between Leppington, Western Sydney Airport and Oran Park were affected by the rail route.

Other sites in Oran Park, Narellan and Macarthur would be affected by the new station precincts as well as construction staging compounds.

Oran Park Town Centre is already spruiking government plans for a future rail site. Picture: Jake McCallum

In Oran Park, the government approached Greenfield Development Company, owned by Tony Perich, to retain land for the future development of the Oran Park Station.

The station would be built adjacent to the Oran Park town centre at the corner of Oran Park Dr and Holden Dr.

Meanwhile, at Narellan, a total of 19 industrial and commercial properties would be directly impacted by the proposed Narellan Station — earmarked for a site west of the Narellan shopping centre at Campbell and Kirkham streets.

In July last year, residents were notified that their properties had been rezoned for Special Purpose Infrastructure — allowing the development of a train station — after being told that there was a “possible compulsory acquisition plan” for their properties in 2018 by phone and email.

The government report refers to Narellan’s station location as being within walking distance to the town centre with good access to transport and major roads.

The plans for the station site at Narellan meant the government was considering a “longer-term planning objective” for development proposed in the area.

Western Sydney Airport metro rail line: A fast metro rail service will link the new Western Sydney Airport with the rest of the city.

Landowner and former businessman David Fennell said he had been told “absolutely nothing” about the acquisition process, despite his land being rezoned as part of the government planning for the station precinct.

“We have no timeline for acquisition, there has been no independent evaluation of our property value and no consultation with landowners about our future,” he said.

“The whole process has been very secretive, landowners are being told nothing.”

Another Narellan landowner said the property earmarked for government acquisition was the birthright of he and his children.

“If the government want the land, considering they are going to sell it to a developer and profit more than $14,000 per sqm, they need to adequately compensate us for it,” he said. “We will not go down without a fight.”

Land has been rezoned for a metro station neighbouring the Narellan Town Centre.

Another said he was willing to destroy the land before allowing the government to buy his property for a “low-ball offer”.

“There has been no adequate consultation around the relocation of my business, no timeline for the project and no future or security for me at this site,” he said.

“We have become completely disillusioned because we were notified of a possible acquisition in 2018 and heard nothing since, only to discover our land had been rezoned from under our feet.”

A Transport for NSW spokeswoman said the final corridors for the Sydney Metro Western Sydney Airport, South West Rail extension of Western Sydney Freight Line were confirmed on June 30, 2020.

“All impacted property owners have been notified,” the spokeswoman said. “Transport for NSW are still working through the cost to complete the future extensions of the Sydney Metro network.”

The department did not answer questions put to it regarding the consultation process behind property acquisitions, or the identification of Metro station sites along the extended line.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

The new western city at Bringelly (working title Aerotropolis) will be named Bradfield.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Fairfield (East, West, Heights etc), Strathfield, Smithfield, Enfield, Macquarie Field(s), Ashfield, Beaconsfield, Belfield, Lindfield, Greenfield, Glenfield, Haberfield, Marsfield, Lilyfield, Schofield(s).... :roll:
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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boxythingy wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:05 am Fairfield (East, West, Heights etc), Strathfield, Smithfield, Enfield, Macquarie Field(s), Ashfield, Beaconsfield, Belfield, Lindfield, Greenfield, Glenfield, Haberfield, Marsfield, Lilyfield, Schofield(s).... :roll:
Not to mention the former suburb of Bradfield, spanning West Lindfield and West Killara. It ceased to exist in about 1970.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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tonyp wrote: Not to mention the former suburb of Bradfield, spanning West Lindfield and West Killara. It ceased to exist in about 1970.
Interesting.
There is a Bradfield Rd in West Lindfield.

And the Federal division of Bradfield covers that area.

But wasn't aware of an actual suburb.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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moa999 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:23 am Interesting.
There is a Bradfield Rd in West Lindfield.

And the Federal division of Bradfield covers that area.

But wasn't aware of an actual suburb.
https://dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/bradfield
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »

Interesting, so was there every a runway/airport at RAAF Bradfield Park?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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No just a training base.

There is no runway at the RAAF Glenbrook HQ either.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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boronia wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:18 pm No just a training base.

There is no runway at the RAAF Glenbrook HQ either.
Nor is it possible to go to sea in HMAS Watson :)

Deceptive these defense names.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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tonyp wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:18 am
boxythingy wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:05 am Fairfield (East, West, Heights etc), Strathfield, Smithfield, Enfield, Macquarie Field(s), Ashfield, Beaconsfield, Belfield, Lindfield, Greenfield, Glenfield, Haberfield, Marsfield, Lilyfield, Schofield(s).... :roll:
Not to mention the former suburb of Bradfield, spanning West Lindfield and West Killara. It ceased to exist in about 1970.
How interesting, a recycled suburb name!
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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boxythingy wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:05 am Fairfield (East, West, Heights etc), Strathfield, Smithfield, Enfield, Macquarie Field(s), Ashfield, Beaconsfield, Belfield, Lindfield, Greenfield, Glenfield, Haberfield, Marsfield, Lilyfield, Schofield(s).... :roll:
A new verse for I've Been Everywhere?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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Glen wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:48 pm How interesting, a recycled suburb name!
Better than duplicated.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:20 am
Better than duplicated.
GNB won't allow duplication. I remember how the very old name Figtree in Hunters Hill was ruthlessly exterminated in favour of the younger Figtree in Wollongong.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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BALMORAL comes to mind. 2258 and 2571.

I've come across a few other rural communities with same name as big city localities/suburbs.
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