WS Airport Metro

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gilberations
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by gilberations »

It’s also possible that they made a mistake in printing with a reporter who doesn’t know the difference between metro and Sydney trains
moa999
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »

Quite possibly. Although the original plan for the Leppington line was for it to only go to the Aerotropolis (now Bradfield) not the Airport itself
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Fleet Lists »

These plans are obviously still open to change.
If the Bankstown Metro is extended (it has been suggested to Liverpool) but instead extended to Glenfield we could have a Metro from the City to the new Airport.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

Sorry, I misquoted the cost, which should be $77.5m. That seems an even more over the top figure just for a business case for what is a relatively straight forward extension. A lot of preliminary investigation had been done previously for extending the SWRL to St Marys and Narellan as part of the existing network, which IMO would have been a better outcome. I've searched the TfNSW and Sydney Metro websites for any information on this latest stage 2 proposal, but can't find any reference to it. It all seems rather vague.

If indeed the intention is to convert the SWRL to metro and extend it to Bradfield (Aerotropolis), then I can't see why it couldn't be extended to the airport terminal, which will have provision for 4 platforms, to directly link with a future Metro West extension from Westmead to allow for through running. I doubt if the intention is to divert the current WSA metro from St Marys to Glenfield. It is more likely to have separate stub tunnels at Bradfield for a future extension to Macarthur. The North-South metro line will only have provision for 4 car trains and when ultimately extended to Schofields, it will be incompatible with Metro Northwest, requiring interchange.

It's a further demonstration of the government's bloody-mindedness when it comes to any extension of the existing network. When considering options for future rail links to WSA, they gave extension of the SWRL a low priority, instead favouring the North-South and East-West metro links. Their own Western Sydney Rail Needs Scoping Study concluded that both East-West rail links, the SWRL extension and Metro West extension, outperformed the North-South metro link, and yet they still opted for the least desirable North-South link, which is essentially a property development proposal. Now out of the blue, the SWRL extension has moved up the priority list, but as a metro. They couldn't stomach the thought that they would have to invest in an extension of the existing Sydney Trains network. Their thinking is all arse-up.

The downside to conversion of the SWRL to metro is that commuters on that line and any extension will no longer have a direct service to the Sydney CBD and will have to interchange at Glenfield. As others have pointed out, there is also the practicality of fitting in additional terminating platforms for the metro at Glenfield within the already constricted rail corridor. If it takes over two of the Glenfield platforms, then that compromises any future quadruplication of the South Line to Campbelltown. But then, they wouldn't really care, as demonstrated by converting the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link and the Bankstown Line to metro, without any thought being given to how they compromised existing Sydney Trains operations.

Another important lost opportunity will be to deny the potential for a more direct Airport Express service to the CBD via the East Hills Line, similar to Hong Kong.

If Labor wins the forthcoming Federal Election and next years State Election, this could all change.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »


Transtopic wrote: It's a further demonstration of the government's bloody-mindedness when it comes to any extension of the existing network. When considering options for future rail links to WSA, they gave extension of the SWRL a low priority, instead favouring the North-South and East-West metro links.

...
to deny the potential for a more direct Airport Express service to the CBD via the East Hills Line, similar to Hong Kong.
I would have thought it's more bloody minded to build new rail in what is still mostly farmland.

Rather than infill areas which have had minimal investment in public transport for over a hundred years of many governments.

Unlike Hong Kong, we aren't getting rid of the airport closer to the CBD.
SYD will remains Sydney's primary airport for decades to come.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Transtopic »

moa999 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:41 pm
Transtopic wrote: It's a further demonstration of the government's bloody-mindedness when it comes to any extension of the existing network. When considering options for future rail links to WSA, they gave extension of the SWRL a low priority, instead favouring the North-South and East-West metro links.

...
to deny the potential for a more direct Airport Express service to the CBD via the East Hills Line, similar to Hong Kong.
I would have thought it's more bloody minded to build new rail in what is still mostly farmland.

Rather than infill areas which have had minimal investment in public transport for over a hundred years of many governments.

Unlike Hong Kong, we aren't getting rid of the airport closer to the CBD.
SYD will remains Sydney's primary airport for decades to come.
That's true, but nonetheless it will still be desirable to have a direct fast rail link with the Sydney CBD, particularly for inbound tourists. I don't buy the argument that WSA will only cater for Western Sydney travellers. It also has the advantage of being curfew free. I think that in the longer term it will become the dominant airport.

A SWRL extension, in whatever form, will have far more potential for patronage from the already developing South West Growth Region and Southern Highlands in the short term than the St Marys link.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

A business case is to be prepared for extension of the Western Sydney Metro (St Marys to Bradfield via WSA) to Glenfield via the Leppington line.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/pl ... s-underway
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:51 pm A business case is to be prepared for extension of the Western Sydney Metro (St Marys to Bradfield via WSA) to Glenfield via the Leppington line.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/pl ... s-underway
There should really be a uninterrupted change free trip between the new airport and the city doesn't matter what way it goes via to get there
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

That will happen when the Parramatta metro gets extended to the Airport.

Doesn't really matter how services are established, there will always be a majority of people who will need to change at least once to get their destinations. Chances are only a small proportion will be going all the way to the CBD.

Wouldn't a more logical solution be to extend the Leppington line to the airport and avoid splitting the metro?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: A business case is to be prepared for extension of the Western Sydney Metro (St Marys to Bradfield via WSA) to Glenfield via the Leppington line
Should provide something that can be trotted out in the 2027, 2031, 2035 etc election campaigns without actually doing anything...waste of money.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

boronia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 4:40 pm That will happen when the Parramatta metro gets extended to the Airport.

Doesn't really matter how services are established, there will always be a majority of people who will need to change at least once to get their destinations. Chances are only a small proportion will be going all the way to the CBD.

Wouldn't a more logical solution be to extend the Leppington line to the airport and avoid splitting the metro?
They could convert 2 platforms at Leppington to metro and connect the ws airport metro with the north west section of the current metro line
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Fleet Lists »

That does not makes any sense at all. Such a connection does not require any changes at Leppington.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

The plan is for the Airport Metro to eventually go to Macarthur. I imagine it would bypass Leppington altogether.

What is the difference between an interchange at Bradfield or Leppington?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by moa999 »


boronia wrote: Wouldn't a more logical solution be to extend the Leppington line to the airport and avoid splitting the metro?
Airport is only designed with four platforms.
Do you want to give up a future Metro West extension?

The advantage of truncating at Leppington over Glenfield is you've already got four platforms at Leppington, and it means (with some work) trains could still use the Leppington depot.

If the metro goes all the way to Glenfield you'd be up for another new depot somewhere and I expect a much more complex rebuild at Glenfield itself.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by rogf24 »

The Aerotropolis is being designed for 6 platforms, no?

But sending the Metro all the way to Glenfield, not really sold on that yet. Leppington, the most logical place for the Metro to finish for the moment instead of nowhere.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

There will be four platform faces at each of WSA Business Park, WSA Terminal and Bradfield and two lines coming in from the north, from St Marys and from Westmead/Sydney. Thus there is scope for two lines exiting at the southern end of Bradfield, one to Glenfield and one to Macarthur.. That was always the plan. The only interim assumption was that the suburban Leppington line would be extended to Bradfield, where obviously a pair of double length underground platforms would be required for metro trains at the northern end and suburban trains at the southern end.

Extending the metro line to Glenfield is a much neater solution, enabling a normal platform at Bradfield and direct interchange to the Main South and East Hills lines at Glenfield.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by rogf24 »

I mean it just moves the "mess". The mess will now be at Glenfield instead.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

rogf24 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:00 pm I mean it just moves the "mess". The mess will now be at Glenfield instead.
There's nothing to interchange to at Leppington. Why would you subject everybody to changing trains at Leppington, then again at Glenfield? There will be no mess at Glenfield. It's perfectly set up to terminate the metro there. Just a bit of a revamp of the track layout, like at Sydenham or Chatswood.

At least we have all straight platforms, new stations and carparks all set up on this job. Voltage would have to be converted to AC though.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by boronia »

rogf24 wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:10 pm The Aerotropolis is being designed for 6 platforms, no?

But sending the Metro all the way to Glenfield, not really sold on that yet. Leppington, the most logical place for the Metro to finish for the moment instead of nowhere.
Sending the metro to Glenfield doesn't seem to fit with plans to run it to Oran Park and Macarthur, presumably along the Northern Rd corridor?
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:51 pm
Sending the metro to Glenfield doesn't seem to fit with plans to run it to Oran Park and Macarthur, presumably along the Northern Rd corridor?
The Macarthur via Oran Park extension is still in the plan. There are four tracks running through the WSA-Bradfield precinct, enough for two lines to the north and two to the south.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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boronia wrote: Sending the metro to Glenfield doesn't seem to fit with plans to run it to Oran Park and Macarthur, presumably along the Northern Rd corridor?
Which essentially means if the Tallawong/WSA Metro goes to Glenfield/Leppington,

Then Metro West would loop down to Oran Park/ Macarthur.
Which is a pretty decent outcome providing one seat ride all the way to the CBD.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

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tonyp wrote: There's nothing to interchange to at Leppington. Why would you subject everybody to changing trains at Leppington, then again at Glenfield? There will be no mess at Glenfield. It's perfectly set up to terminate the metro there.
So you've got the T2, T5 and T8 all on one set of platforms.
And what do you do with the T2 and T5 which would effectively terminate at Glenfield.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:30 am So you've got the T2, T5 and T8 all on one set of platforms.
And what do you do with the T2 and T5 which would effectively terminate at Glenfield.
You can't get a train south to Macarthur and intermediate stations from Leppington. That's at Glenfield.

Obviously the suburban routes would have to be restructured, but, with the rearrangement of tracks at Glenfield there would doubtless be space for a turnback south of the station, if required.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by Linto63 »

If it were ever to be built, the Metro would likely only be built to Leppington, not Glenfield as it already has the ability to act as an interchange station with the same layout as Chatswood. The only work required would be needed would be the construction of a headshunt at the eastern end.
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Re: WS Airport Metro

Post by gilberations »

Tonyp, the plan states Leppington not Glenfield. You can’t convert Leppington to Glenfield to metro without displacing about 20 or so 8 car sets with nowhere to stable. Interestingly Leppington Yard was built for an eventual extension to be made via the middle two roads to continue to the airport. This is the first confirmation that the extension will be metro and not Sydney trains.

Stupid for them to not build the Tallawong to St Mary’s via Marsden Park and stage 2. This will be a wasted opportunity again, which will force them to have to tunnel through a flood plain.
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