NSW Electric Bus Plan

[Merc1107]

I heard another eCitaro went up recently, but haven't gone to the effort of substantiating that claim.

Perhaps a downside of battery technology as a whole ... if there is a short (particularly an internal fault with the battery that is undetectable), all of a sudden you have a very big problem on your hands.

[Campbelltown busboy]

Watch the government will pull the Chinese built e buses off the road because of all the exploding batteries that are happening in Europe they have already pulled all CD elements off the road because of the risk of the batteries catching fire

[tonyp]

Watch the government will pull the Chinese built e buses off the road because of all the exploding batteries that are happening in Europe they have already pulled all CD elements off the road because of the risk of the batteries catching fire

It seems to be a random lottery and not related to country of origin or brand. It's one of the downsides of the unholy rush to battery-electric vehicles in general. Mostly it doesn't happen, but the day it randomly does, make sure your life insurance and athletics training are up to date. Particularly if it's a hydrogen bus. Observing some of the battery fires on film, it does seem that the vehicle occupant does have a better chance of escape if the batteries are roof-mounted, as long as the driver opens the doors quickly enough. Underfloor or interior batteries take hold of the whole bus in seconds. The only buses we have here with underfloor batteries afaik are the BYDs.

CD is being exceedingly cautious. They're waiting for clearance from France, but I imagine that if it drags on too long, they may look at sourcing from elsewhere.

[moa999]

We wouldn't have many diesel buses left if we pulled a type awaiting results of investigation every time there was a fire.

But for new tech I can see why they are being cautious.

[Merc1107]

We wouldn't have many diesel buses left if we pulled a type awaiting results of investigation every time there was a fire.

I believe this happened in Brisbane with the CNG fleet when the tank/s on at least one bus ruptured during refuelling. Not sure if a cause was ever determined (it was reported on the ABC about a year ago the "solution" was not fully refuelling CNG vehicles). No other operator in Australia have had the same problem. As usual Australia is the only place where a technology endemic to the rest of the world somehow doesn't work

There was of course the saga with the Mercedes OC500LEs being somewhat prone to fire, although Perth didn't go the extreme of withdrawing the entire fleet until the problem was solved. There is simply a very strong emphasis on preventative maintenance activities, and ensuring staff are well-versed in fire protocols (as evidenced by recent tenders which were available online).
I imagine similar preventative strategies will be the stop-gap solution for electrics until diagnostics for batteries are able to detect the chemical or electric issues that send them into a runaway state.

Particularly if it's a hydrogen bus.

Have there been any documented issues with H2 buses? While a hydrogen leak is pretty serious - it's a lot easier to check for them than essentially living in hope that your Li-On battery doesn't have some critical defect that won't show up until its too late.

[Linto63]

Watch the government will pull the Chinese built e buses off the road because of all the exploding batteries that are happening in Europe they have already pulled all CD elements off the road because of the risk of the batteries catching fire

The Custom Dennings have been grounded due to a potential fault from one component supplier. That the BYD and Yutongs remain on the road would suggest they are using a different supplier. But this does illustrate the risk associated in placing all your eggs in one basket by only purchasing from one manufacturer.

We wouldn't have many diesel buses left if we pulled a type awaiting results of investigation every time there was a fire.

Exactly, many classes of State Transit bus have lost a member to fire, yet they have proved to be one-offs.

[Swift]

No one died in the French fried bus. Maybe more reason to make them three door buses though.

[Jurassic_Joke]

A pity to see the CD Elements grounded, I actually thought they were the nicest of the big three currently in NSW (BYD, Yutong, Element).

Of course, we won’t be hearing a peep from Labor about this because oops, they were built here. It goes to show building stuff here isn’t the magic bullet to fixing everything and I hope the Gov also begins looking at other successful electric buses currently running in Europe (as examples, eBusco 2.2, VDL Citea, Heuliuz etc)

[tonyp]

No one died in the French fried bus. Maybe more reason to make them three door buses though.

The Bollore buses in Paris are two door buses, but fully low floor. They do have a three door version.

As I said, it's gambler's luck. BYDs have gone up in flames too overseas. The fault in the Bollores has been established as not electro-chemical, so it's not the batteries themselves. It's taking a frustratingly long time though. It's one thing to manufacture the bus locally, it's another thing having to depend on overseas OEMs for specialised electronic components that aren't made in Australia, which is the case with all electric buses here to date.

[ScaniaGrenda]

Maybe more reason to make them three door buses though.

Careful Swift, that's called smart thinking right there and that doesn't apply here, even with a set of 3 doors, Operators will insist PAX enter & exit from the front door only. What Europe manages to do right we look at it and go for ways to go backwards which explains why the same flat floor model buses offered overseas mysteriously end up with stepped gangways here for example.

[Swift]

Our bus industry is still too parochial in it's thinking and I think pulling the all the Elements off the road because of one single bus fire on the other side of the globe is extremely knee-jerk and runs the risk of CD being even more reluctant than they are, to take the risk of developing new innovations that are potentially revolutionary locally and will take us out of our backward rut we have at the moment.

[Linto63]

It's one thing to manufacture the bus locally, it's another thing having to depend on overseas OEMs for specialised electronic components that aren't made in Australia, which is the case with all electric buses here to date.

Always been the case for Australian manufactured buses. Most, it not all, Australian chassis manufactured by Austral, Denning, RFW etc have relied on overseas suppliers for their mechanical components.

Our bus industry is still too parochial in it's thinking and I think pulling the all the Elements off the road because of one single bus fire on the other side of the globe is extremely knee-jerk

Standard practice, and while not ideal, the lesser of two evils. If the component supplier has recommended that buses using its components be withdrawn, from an insurance point of view, there is little choice.

[tonyp]

Our bus industry is still too parochial in it's thinking and I think pulling the all the Elements off the road because of one single bus fire on the other side of the globe is extremely knee-jerk and runs the risk of CD being even more reluctant than they are, to take the risk of developing new innovations that are potentially revolutionary locally and will take us out of our backward rut we have at the moment.

Apart from the obvious issues that require the buses to be withheld from service, CD, at this early stage of gaining market traction, can ill afford the negative publicity that would result from one of its buses going up in flames. Other electric bus manufacturers wouldn't be making fun of CD's predicament either because they'd be quietly thinking "there but for the grace of god go I". It would be inviting karma for them to make a marketing point out of CD, then have one of their own buses go up the next day. It's an occupational hazard of modern battery electric vehicles in general. Too much trial and error still going on imho.

[Swift]

I hope the maker of the components in question find a solution ASAP as electric traction is the answer we've been waiting for to get genuine low floor buses made here at long last, no more excuses about difficulties getting drive trains to fit in a RHD market yak yak yaketty blah blah blah.
Now to work on getting our first three door rigids in over 60 years.

[Campbelltown busboy]

I hope the maker of the components in question find a solution ASAP as electric traction is the answer we've been waiting for to get genuine low floor buses made here at long last, no more excuses about difficulties getting drive trains to fit in a RHD market yak yak yaketty blah blah blah.
Now to work on getting our first three door rigids in over 60 years.

It's the European manufacturers that are needing to have a modal in production that can acommodate ether left hand or right hand drive trains and a full low floor aisle

[Orana aesthetic]

Of course, we won’t be hearing a peep from Labor about this because oops, they were built here. It goes to show building stuff here isn’t the magic bullet to fixing everything

Case in point, Tritium's "slightly" unreliable EV chargers. If Custom Denning and Tritium formed a partnership, they could create the ultimate Australian go nowhere electric mobility solution.

[Swift]

I hope the maker of the components in question find a solution ASAP as electric traction is the answer we've been waiting for to get genuine low floor buses made here at long last, no more excuses about difficulties getting drive trains to fit in a RHD market yak yak yaketty blah blah blah.
Now to work on getting our first three door rigids in over 60 years.

It's the European manufacturers that are needing to have a modal in production that can acommodate ether left hand or right hand drive trains and a full low floor aisle

Well they largely haven't except for the Scania N series and even those have had a conventional low entry layout built on them and now we have come up with our own genuine low floor bus via electric propulsion.

[In Transit]

What this really shows up is the danger of a ministerial brain snap (we must have only electric buses, from this day onward and 100% complete by an utterly arbitrary date that just happens to be a nice round number). Another Constance legacy, and unfortunately one which TfNSW seemed unable to satisfactorily manage upwards (too many people trying to be on the right side of history perhaps).

So despite electric buses really still being an emerging technology, NSW has plunged headlong into it rather than a cautiously staged approach which can best harness new developments as they occur. Meanwhile there are other consequences with fleet which are only just being held together. It all sounds great and no doubt brings both warm fuzzy feelings and much applause from those who love a sound bite .... but all this is disconnected from the realities of running a public transport system.

I can’t help but think this is a consequence of politics meeting headlong with a transport agency that seems to lack the expertise and internal culture to properly manage both development of policy and its implementation.

[tonyp]

At least they've made the dates more realistic now: 2035 for Sydney, 2040 for outer metro and 2047 for regional.

[Campbelltown busboy]

At least they've made the dates more realistic now: 2035 for Sydney, 2040 for outer metro and 2047 for regional.

Then they need to worry about the buses and coaches that Tranlink intercity rail replacement contracted operators use for those services whitch is easy for someone like CDC Hunter Valley CDC Blue Mountains Buslines group and the Premier group then there are the charter operators that do subcontracted work for that same line during a trackwork shutdown

[ScaniaGrenda]

At least they've made the dates more realistic now: 2035 for Sydney, 2040 for outer metro and 2047 for regional.

And that is if they can actually realistically stick to them.

The announcement for Newcastle Transports 3 ZDI's was made back in April and while they said they are due to be delivered "in the coming months" we're about 5 months in from the announcement and I've not heard or seen anymore updates about the delivery of Both the ZDI's themselves and the supposed Bustech Factory that may or may not be built in Newcastle. And again this makes myself skeptical, news of local manufacturing doesn't fly under the radar here and Both TNSW / KD & the media wouldn't miss a chance to jump on a good PR story, perhaps it was a bit premature for TNSW to say their coming soon when Bustech doesn't even have it's finalized ZDI on the road yet.

I'm giving it until Mid October to wait and see if more news will be received on the regions first electric buses. Apologies again for being this way however I've seen way too many flops and "promises" fall flat on their feet and I feel I remain right to be on the edge about this.

[lunchbox]

Has nobody noticed that the back of the Yutong Electric bus is no longer "as ugly as the back of a bus"?
86559

[tonyp]

Has nobody noticed that the back of the Yutong Electric bus is no longer "as ugly as the back of a bus"?
86559

Photo?

[Swift]

Has nobody noticed that the back of the Yutong Electric bus is no longer "as ugly as the back of a bus"?
86559

I'll have to see it and give my judgment.

[Stonesourscotty]

Appears the rest of the Elements for Penrith Busways have arrived. Seem to all be parked near the Staff Cars.