NSW Electric Bus Plan

[tonyp]

It seems we have a new player in the NSW electric bus market - Guangtong. I noticed in the Fleetlists that NSBC is getting a Guangtong electric coach. I was expecting them to get the Yutong C12E

It was only a matter of time before some operator bought a battery coach and manufacturers of them are a dime a dozen in China. It would be interesting to learn what was the cause of the loss of control of an electric coach in San Francisco recently.

[Linto63]

Transit Systems have at least five Elements including 8776 unregistered at its Smithfield depot. Whether they will enter service in region 3 or are just stored here until entering service in region 6 is unknown.

[boronia]

It seems we have a new player in the NSW electric bus market - Guangtong. I noticed in the Fleetlists that NSBC is getting a Guangtong electric coach. I was expecting them to get the Yutong C12E

NSBC is owned by TrueGreen.

From AB&C:
TrueGreen owns zero-emissions bus companies such as Foton Mobility, Gemilang Australia, Nexport and GoZero in Australia and is expecting to make more acquisition this year.
Perhaps Guantong is one of them?

[tonyp]

NSBC is owned by TrueGreen.

From AB&C:
TrueGreen owns zero-emissions bus companies such as Foton Mobility, Gemilang Australia, Nexport and GoZero in Australia and is expecting to make more acquisition this year.
Perhaps Guantong is one of them?

TrueGreen is an Australian (afaik) investment group. It doesn't own Foton or Guantong, which are Chines companies. It's possibly an Australian agent for them as it is for BYD.

[Swift]

Electric buses relying on batteries are a dogma driven farce.
https://youtu.be/6zdSDnLSYEM?si=9Lg-cMv5gR6ILPt_

[tonyp]

ARCC Hydrogen bus is visiting illawarra for a short trial, will be operating on the Gong.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/i ... -bus-trial

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8qeubj

Perhaps a certain ATDB resident close to the area is keen on checking out out?

Spoiler, no flat floor for you!

I've already been on the bus at the Bus Expo.

Thanks for the video link. Excellent explanation by John King of what a "hydrogen" bus actually is - it's just a normal battery bus but with a fuel cell to top up the batteries as it goes along. So many people seem to think that the bus is just propelled by hydrogen and isn't a battery bus. John also highlighted the huge cost of a full battery pack for an overnight-charging bus, incurred about every eight years, as well as the two tonne weight saving (in this case) from having a smaller battery pack. This saving also applies to in-motion charging trolleybuses and opportunity-charging electric buses like the Brisbane double-artics. So a fuel cell is a step across to the weight-saving (and thus passenger capacity-increasing) type of electric bus, which is in most ways superior to a straight battery bus.

John didn't mention the downside of a fuel cell bus - the eye-watering purchase price, about $1.2 million I understand, which is heading towards twice as much as a straight battery bus (let alone a diesel) and also more expensive than a trolley or opportunity-charging bus. On a per-passenger basis, a fuel cell bus is more expensive than a tram. When you consider the far greater capacity of a tram you'd have to ask whether it's worth it.

My last point is, as usual, the high floor at the back of the bus. Completely and utterly unnecessary in any sort of electric bus. I've actually debated this at length with the designers of this bus and they completely lack understanding of the advantage of a stepless public transport vehicle. They think there are stepless buses in Europe only because there's a door up the back, but it's not because of the door. It's the productivity issue of passenger flow efficiency, maximising carrying capacity, as well as passenger convenience, comfort and safety. Of course, this lack of understanding of the issue is widespread across the bus sector - manufacturers, operators and even agencies, who should at least be abreast of best practice.

That still leaves the Element as the best-practice electric bus on the Australian market. Early on, CD did say they would offer a fuel cell version, but that would have to await an order and, at such a high purchase cost, orders aren't going to be flowing freely. If the current NSW government, which says it's short of money, is prepared to throw money at fuel cell buses (meaning getting one bus for the price of two), I'm sure that taxpayers will be overjoyed to support that. I can't see them getting more than a token handful, otherwise they'd have to cut back on something else.

[Fleet Lists]

Trailerbus post removed - it has already been covered in its own thread. It does not need to be posted in every other thread.

[tonyp]

For reference, if anybody comes across somebody who tells you that you can't have a low floor hydrogen bus because you need to fit all this blah blah equipment on board, here is a Škoda hydrogen bus in Europe.





Custom Denning is simply building buses the way they build them in Europe. What Bustech has done on the Scania low floor electric chassis in Adelaide is just appalling and demonstrates how backward some of our local manufacturers are.

[Swift]

Skoda needs to take up where Mercedes left off in our market.
Their cars are sold here, time for their buses now.

[tonyp]

Skoda needs to take up where Mercedes left off in our market.
Their cars are sold here, time for their buses now.

Different company. Just the brand is licensed out, like Rolls Royce was. Škoda Transportation is the descendant of the original company and specialises in electric trains, trams, buses and traction equipment. Škoda Auto was separated from the original company and later sold to VAG (Volkswagen).

[Swift]

Similar situation to Volvo. Still, the name is known here.
Australia needs their innovative PT line here badly.
I usually baulk at today's bus designs but that Skoda looks good as does Customs Endeavour.

[Merc1107]

That nearside mirror on Skoda has a huge bullseye painted on it ... little wonder local builders typically opt for something much smaller, simpler and cheaper.

[tonyp]

That nearside mirror on Skoda has a huge bullseye painted on it ... little wonder local builders typically opt for something much smaller, simpler and cheaper.

Well that's the way they obviously want it over there. The accessories don't concern me, it's the substance that's of interest.

The similarity of the seats with the Element seats in the Tasmanian buses. Love these seats and hate the benches we get in NSW.

[Merc1107]

The similarity of the seats with the Element seats in the Tasmanian buses. Love these seats and hate the benches we get in NSW.

The one thing benches have going for them, in my books, is the extra cushioning - which is helpful given patrons on a bus in Australia probably have to sit about longer waiting for the thing to arrive at their destination. If individual seats could have that cushioning, the combination of that and the superior shape, would be a winner.

[Swift]

Just noticed. Three doors. Obviously the norm in it's home market. Scoffed at here in Pleasantville.

[tonyp]

ARCC Hydrogen bus is visiting illawarra for a short trial, will be operating on the Gong.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/i ... -bus-trial

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8qeubj

Perhaps a certain ATDB resident close to the area is keen on checking out out?

Spoiler, no flat floor for you!

I've found the capacity details on the back of this bus - 60 (46 seated, 14 standing). This is even a little less than a straight battery bus, yet (according to John King) it''s 2 tonne lighter thanks to its small battery pack.

I thought the lighter a bus is, the greater the passenger carrying capacity. The hefty battery buses are bad enough dragging the capacity down from 70-80 to the low 60s. I don't see any advantage in this hydrogen bus if it can't increase the capacity.

So it's lighter, yet can't carry any additional passengers; it purports to mitigate range anxiety, yet the average Australian 12 metre battery bus can already typically run a full day's roster without recharging; it costs almost twice as much as a straight battery bus. And it still has a high floor at the back anyway, so doesn't represent any design progress. It seems utterly pointless. The only reason for its existence seems to be so that the government can promote a hydrogen hub at Port Kembla and, being in charge of the state, they're free to splash good taxpayer cash around these look-good, but impractical projects.

[tonyp]

I'm wondering, if anybody is out and about in region 6 and sees one of the Foton hydrogen buses that's supposed to be on trial there, whether they can nail down the passenger capacity figures (seating and standing) on the back of the bus?

I'm surprised by the capacity of the ARCC bus if it's supposed to be lighter. It suggests that more than weight is taken into account in calculating passenger capacity in NSW. Is there some prohibition on standing on the high floor? Don't tell me ARCC has shot itself in the foot assuming that high floors don't matter? Or is there some other issue?

[Campbelltown busboy]

I'm wondering, if anybody is out and about in region 6 and sees one of the Foton hydrogen buses that's supposed to be on trial there, whether they can nail down the passenger capacity figures (seating and standing) on the back of the bus?

I'm surprised by the capacity of the ARCC bus if it's supposed to be lighter. It suggests that more than weight is taken into account in calculating passenger capacity in NSW. Is there some prohibition on standing on the high floor? Don't tell me ARCC has shot itself in the foot assuming that high floors don't matter? Or is there some other issue?

Those hydrogen buses are now in Adelaide as they now show up in the Torrens Transit fleet list plus I haven't seen them in the Transit Systems NSW to be delivered listings for a few months

[tonyp]

Those hydrogen buses are now in Adelaide as they now show up in the Torrens Transit fleet list plus I haven't seen them in the Transit Systems NSW to be delivered listings for a few months

They seem to be then going to Hobart according to Metro Tas publicity. Did they ever actually run in Sydney?

[Campbelltown busboy]

Those hydrogen buses are now in Adelaide as they now show up in the Torrens Transit fleet list plus I haven't seen them in the Transit Systems NSW to be delivered listings for a few months

They seem to be then going to Hobart according to Metro Tas publicity. Did they ever actually run in Sydney?

No they where sitting in the to be delivered listing for months as being prepared to run out of Hoxton Park depot in region 3

[Lt. Commander Data]

They seem to be then going to Hobart according to Metro Tas publicity. Did they ever actually run in Sydney?

Maybe Metro Tas is getting 2 different buses? From what I have been led to believe, Transit Systems own the 2 ex-Sydney currently in Adelaide so I can’t see them being sent to a state with no TSA companies.

[tonyp]

Maybe Metro Tas is getting 2 different buses? From what I have been led to believe, Transit Systems own the 2 ex-Sydney currently in Adelaide so I can’t see them being sent to a state with no TSA companies.

That's plausible. Still interested to know the total passenger capacities on the back wherever they may appear.

[idontknow556]

Happened to see a Foton Electric bus at Bankstown interchange doing rail. Not sure of the operator but it is operating on route 14T3 all stops to Cabramatta so I assume it's either operated by PBC or Kinetic

[Swift]

It'll give a more train like experience for the passengers.

[BAMBAM]

Happened to see a Foton Electric bus at Bankstown interchange doing rail. Not sure of the operator but it is operating on route 14T3 all stops to Cabramatta so I assume it's either operated by PBC or Kinetic

Currently with North Sydney Bus Charters. Was previously with Port Stephens Coaches where they used it on their uni bus shuttles. Not sure whether they are just testing it or if it’s theirs.