NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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alleve
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by alleve »

Reversed seating is always more unpopular than forward seating, but given the choice between standing or sitting people will always choose sitting. You see the same thing in the CB80s. It's certainly better than having no seats.
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

moa999 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:09 pm Ah the good old low floor debate.
Personally I see it as a trade off.

I finally got a ride on the rare release of an Element from Waverley. Rode it for a couple of km on the 324 from the city.

Noise levels were better than the BYD electrics, and ride quality felt pretty good.

Plug type rear door is great. Why isn't this in other manufacturers kit? As is the rear window, although sadly mostly covered by the NSW 40 Speed limit sign.
That 40 speed sign on the back of a bus and those flashing lights that accompany it are a school day warning device the lights warn motorists on school days to slow down as there might be school aged people boarding or alighting a bus. The 40 sign works better then the yellow mother and child signs that where placed on the back of buses when the flashing school lights policy first came in
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Swift
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

To retain a floor that slopes just for some seats that a minority of people would have an issue with encapsulates NSW attitudes of not improving lest you cause a shriek from an overly raucous minority. Not havin it!
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flitter
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by flitter »

Pretty sure that the number of people that actually care about either is small…
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Again a NSW specific phenomenon.
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

One of the ZDI Bustechs @ Newcastle Transport is currently tracking correctly as a ZDI although when selecting to filter by electric bus it disappears so doesn't look like it's properly categorised as an E-Bus on real time trip tracking (Anytrip) yet.

Image

I don't know which ZDI out of the 3 this one is since all of them are now in service, two of them were last tracking a diesel Mercedes bus of some sort due to using recycled transponder equipment so it was very hard to tell from a general prospective when the ZEB ZDI was actually running.

One minor complaint I have to raise against Newcastle Transport is they've been sloppy with destination display signage with the ZDI with some of them running with blank side boards or blank route number boxes at the rear of the bus.
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MiCCROwavE_OVEN
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by MiCCROwavE_OVEN »

moa999 wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 12:09 pm Plug type rear door is great. Why isn't this in other manufacturers kit? As is the rear window, although sadly mostly covered by the NSW 40 Speed limit sign.

But I'm not sold on the fully low floor design in this particular vehicle.
- It has a rear facing seat pair over the rear wheels which isn't popular with pax, particularly post Covid
The double-deck Bustech CDi already has double leaf plug rear doors, although they seem extremely slow to open and close and the lack of grip handles on the side makes alighting on a crowded service quite precarious.

The rear facing pair of seats can also be found on the CDi (unfortunately bad design in the CDi means that legroom is only adequate for two people instead of four) as well as STA's Volvo B12BLEA vehicles, so nothing really new there. Although the handle on the wall in the Elements is quite a useful addition.

Something else I also noticed was that the Element KDNB showcased at the depot open day, 8746, seems to be one of Transit Systems' new vehicles, yet it carries Keolis Downer stickers.
https://www.custombus.com.au/post/custo ... y-open-day

Has 8746 passed to KDNB or was this just a marketing ploy to encourage more drivers to sign up? Also, what's with the 21 or so completed Elements sitting in Leichardt Depot when at least two of the L113s at Kingsgrove have surpassed their 25 years and 364 day service life?
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MotorOmnibus8562
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by MotorOmnibus8562 »

Probably need to charge up the Elements and test them before they enter service.
I wonder if Kingsgrove has got the charging infrastructure.
Last edited by MotorOmnibus8562 on Sun May 28, 2023 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

Busways 5016 has entered service on the 770 not the prettiest bus in the world are they?? Think it either had failed side displays or didn't have them working as only front and rears where visible
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Noel »

TSA Element (8740) was in service this morning.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

5012/3/6 and another are in service mainly leave Penrith around 330 on schooldays
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

Last 2 electrics still not in service. Due next week from what it said on the news
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Saw Transit Systems Kingsgrove Custom Element m/o 8741 yesterday on the 426 to Marrickville around 1:00 PM, interestingly no bell sound enabled on this one (the ding ding ding sound it makes while in motion on the outside). Also a lack of Transit Systems decals on it.

Also saw a recent Youtube video of a Busways element with the dinging sound also disabled? I'd imagine it's something that the workshop can override if Drivers get sick of hearing it constantly and driving the thing for the majority of the day I'm sure they'd be over it in 5 minutes.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

Put up and shut up is a great way to p*ss off the workforce. Noise of A/C (which some operators insist on running at tornado fan velocity all the time!), rattles and squeaks, the insipid whirring and vibrations of modern engines, delinquent passengers. All very annoying.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

I don't know about the elements per say anywhere else in the country at present, I do know Transdev John Holland still has theirs enabled on the former STA batch of elements, I recall seeing 3123 ST a month or so ago and it was still enabled.

Possibly seems the way things are going by observations, newer elements may not have it enabled or feature it? I mean the Yutong E12's and BYD D9RA's never had them to begin with and I am not aware of any legislation that says E-Buses (or E-Vehicles in general) must now be equipped with warning devices to advise of presence along these lines. Although doing so may now be causing unwanted noise pollution if such a legislation was to be made. guess a bit of a Catch 22.

I think we all know why the elements have them so I'll explain just for the sake of it, possibly given how silent E-Buses are (only hearing the hum of an electric motor) can cause safety concerns as pedestrians may not know one is approaching hence the dinging bells.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Have it play a list of sound recording of various older diesel buses driving off!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

The Yutongs have a bell. I was nearly run over at Bomaderry station when the driver started rolling without warning as I was crossing the road. Electric buses were nicknamed "the silent death" in past years. They need some sort of artificial noise simulation at low speeds. Not sure that a bell is the most elegant solution.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Leyland 680 exhaust bark ought to do it.
Hire a sound recordist who collects foleys to pay a visit to a bus museum!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

People step out in front of trucks barrelling towards them at 70km/h. That's not a noise you can ignore, unless you're "plugged in", as it were.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Noel »

The Transdev John Holland Element’s have three settings:

1) always on
2) 0km-10km (ala it plays when stopped)
3) 1km-29km

I prefer option 3 which is the default setting but you can change between them. I find it interesting that the other ones don’t have it as it’s supposedly a TfNSW spec. The Transport Canberra Yutongs even have the passenger vigilance system.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Noel »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:26 am Also saw a recent Youtube video of a Busways element with the dinging sound also disabled?
There’s a video on YouTube from January this year that has one of them with it sounding.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Noel wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 7:22 pm The Transport Canberra Yutongs even have the passenger vigilance system.
Always Canberra and others have a better set up/system than Sydney A-L-W-A-Y-S. We think we're so s##@hot we don't need to have the best.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Not aware of any requirement (yet)
The Aus govt has been undertaking a survey recently (now closed)
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/have- ... c-vehicles

But if it's warning pedestrians - the sound should be focused outside, not inside at passengers and driver.

And arguably it should be more like an engine growl (as most of the EV cars seem to be doing - somewhere between an engine growl and a futuristic spaceship ping).

Personally think the tyre noise from a heavy bus is enough.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

moa999 wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:26 pm
Personally think the tyre noise from a heavy bus is enough.
That's only when the vehicle has built up speed. They're nearly dead silent from standstill except for a slight murmur from the motors and a dog whistle sound from the electrical power being applied.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Noel »

Swift wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:34 pm Always Canberra and others have a better set up/system than Sydney A-L-W-A-Y-S. We think we're so s##@hot we don't need to have the best.
If you read my post, you would realise the system isn't always on. That's one of three settings that can be selected. The Canberra system works exactly the same.
moa999 wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 9:26 pm Personally think the tyre noise from a heavy bus is enough.
I suggest you come for a shift around Bondi Jn with me in one and you'll see how tyre noise is clearly not enough...
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