NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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boronia
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by boronia »

Back in the 1990s I had a radio scanner to eavesdrop on the RR and other services. I'd often hear the controller tell drivers to put up SET DOWN ONLY and turn around (or finish the shift) when the last passenger got off.

That was in the days when STA was more in control of its own destiny, and not beholden to "contract conditions".
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

If we had real bus priority this would be a moot point. We have to look after this precious single occupant cars (bludgers and parasites).
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Passenger 57 »

Swift wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:17 pm I got caught doing it myself once as the RR were taking forever to respond.
Did you have an idea of how far behind the next bus was?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

As it was the 200 in peak hour, not far.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by LB608 »

m/o 8188 Transdev has been transferred back to Queensland and reregistered XQ20EG
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

One of Newcastle Transport's E Buses (Suspect 2900) seems to be getting out, caught a glimpse of it this afternoon going past the Interchange with a Blank Destination & not trackable. I Was on the tram at the time and it got ahead of me unfortunately and was unable to catch up with it.

Hopefully not too much longer now until revenue service.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Randomness »

Saw 10+ unreg Elements in Leichhardt depot. There's 12 on the fleetlists TBD list but these are linked to Kingsgrove depot.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by alleve »

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... nd-penrith

Busways is testing out a Volvo BZL with an Express body in Coffs Harbour and a Nexport ZE–B125 in Penrith

Edit: Article since updated
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by J_Busworth »

Randomness wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:12 pm Saw 10+ unreg Elements in Leichhardt depot. There's 12 on the fleetlists TBD list but these are linked to Kingsgrove depot.
They are the ones for Kingsgrove, closer inspection would have revealed Kingsgrove accred on a number of the vehicles.

They are currently being stored at Leichhardt, awaiting charging infrastructure at Kingsgrove.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Randomness »

Ah ok, thank you.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

The New Electric at Penrith has fleetnumber 7027 and also has Orange LEDs. Instead of the stock white ones.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by LB608 »

There is a new Electric sitting on a wharf in Auckland, is painted NSW Blue & White,stickered in yellow A new electric bus for?
On the Desto is Cessnock,Maitland,Nelson Bay,Newcastle,Scone.
The Security Guard on the wharf has been playing with the desto and flatten the battery,so it will now Port Kembla,as there is a charging Point,on the wharf,or just off the wharf,instead of Sydney or Newcastle
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

LB608 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:59 pm There is a new Electric sitting on a wharf in Auckland, is painted NSW Blue & White,stickered in yellow A new electric bus for?
On the Desto is Cessnock,Maitland,Nelson Bay,Newcastle,Scone.
The Security Guard on the wharf has been playing with the desto and flatten the battery,so it will now Port Kembla,as there is a charging Point,on the wharf,or just off the wharf,instead of Sydney or Newcastle
Is it a Zemtec low-floor electric bus?

https://www.zemtec-ev.com/

If so, that would be a potentially excellent contribution to the local scene. I can't think what else it might be as the only other electrics in NZ afaik are the Chinese CRRC and the A Dennis BYD, low-entrys only. Whatever it is, surely it would have to be on the Panel first?

If we get a solid representation of low-floors on the local market, the penny might finally drop among operators. So far, we have Custom Denning and Volvo, with Scania and MAN on the way - plus maybe Zemtec, maybe Ebusco 3.0? Frankly, we've made a disastrous design debut into electric buses. Nobody in Europe has made a low-entry standard or high-capacity electric bus for over 20 years afaik. It doesn't take Einstein to recognise that you don't need a high floor when there's no engine under the gangway. Even the Chinese make low floors. The problem is the operators with their stuck-in-a-rut thinking. The manufacturers must think we're very old-fashioned, but have no choice but to comply with what the customer wants if the manufacturer wants a sale. This situation is where agencies could be picking up the baton and leading, but they seem to have no idea either.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Passenger 57 »

I'm happy to accept that TfNSW doesn't have a clue but if offered best-practice why wouldn't they take it? What is the drawback of all low floor? Is there an additional cost?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Passenger 57 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:53 pm I'm happy to accept that TfNSW doesn't have a clue but if offered best-practice why wouldn't they take it? What is the drawback of all low floor? Is there an additional cost?
The main relatively small cost afaik was the portal axle, but many low-entrys have portal axles too. On the other hand, they don't have to construct stairs.

I spoke to somebody directly in TfNSW about this and they seem to have this "manufacturer-led" attitude that they publicly expressed when procuring CSELR. They don't question what manufacturers put forward, as long as it complies with the requirements on the Panel. As we know in the past, they're even prepared to dumb the Panel requirements down to accommodate a (previously) non-complying design like the XDi/VST. They seem to have no desire or intention to set their own standards on this.

I have no insight into what goes on internally to create this situation, but there's an attitude of accommodating any punter, no matter their level of design competence, when it seems logical by any other standard to raise the bar in order to encourage the industry to do better. A couple of local electric manufacturers, whom I won't name, even have centrally-mounted motors and driveshafts (under the aisle), something that the European industry abandoned more than twenty years ago. TfNSW doesn't seem to have a best practice ethos. If it wasn't for the DDA I'm sure they'd still be approving high floor buses.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Passenger 57 »

Are the relevant manufacturers just failing to sell the benefits of better designs? Or are there other factors at play? I don't see why a manufacturer that is capable of offering a better design in one RHD market wouldn't offer the same here. Isn't the idea to differentiate yourselves from your competitors? Unless there was added profitability in offering an inferior product in this market I don't see why any manufacturer than can do better doesn't. Is there any reason why an operator might not prefer an all low floor design?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

From comments I've seen on this forum and elsewhere over the years, it seems that many operators think their customers prefer the high floor at the back because of the elevated or "theatre" seating there. This derives from a misconception that, with a low floor, all the seats are down on the floor.

As we know, even in a low floor bus, the rear wheel arches and associated plinths housing equipment result in elevated seats anyway, so that argument dissolves in reality.

Another unfounded view is that the seats over the wheel arches are too high relative to a low floor, something easily disproved by measurement. Indeed, those particular seats are liked by people with conditions such as arthritis because they don't have to bend down using knèes and hips to get in and out of the seat. But of course they often can't get to those seats if there are steps in the aisle!

Finally, there is the effect that aisle stairs have on movement and circulation throughout the bus. We're all familiar with the "move down the aisle please" problem where standees won't go past the stairs. This is compounded by the low ceiling in the back of low-entry buses. There's a general lack of thought about these issues among operators.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Fleet Lists »

But his is NOT an electric bus issue - it applies to all buses - so it does not belong in this thread.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Passenger 57 »

tonyp wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:07 pm From comments I've seen on this forum and elsewhere over the years, it seems
You make a good case which you would think the manufacturers would make. You would think the greater evenness of loading would clinch the argument irrespective of what customers themselves may prefer. Not that operators necessarily care what any customer thinks: single leaf doors with a step. What idiocy.
Fleet Lists wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:23 pm But his is NOT an electric bus issue - it applies to all buses - so it does not belong in this thread.
While the first part of your statement is true moving forward the majority of new purchases will be electric. Are low floor electric coaches a thing now?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Fleet Lists wrote: But his is NOT an electric bus issue - it applies to all buses - so it does not belong in this thread.
Indeed, it has been done to death, but if people want to continue there is a dedicated thread.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

Linto63 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:32 pm
Fleet Lists wrote: But his is NOT an electric bus issue - it applies to all buses - so it does not belong in this thread.
Indeed, it has been done to death, but if people want to continue there is a dedicated thread.
Is there an echo in here?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Passenger 57 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:31 pm While the first part of your statement is true moving forward the majority of new purchases will be electric. Are low floor electric coaches a thing now?
The best way to put it is that electrification has opened up new, improved design possibilities that a diesel or gas engine under the floor previously precluded.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Singapore, another RHD jurisdiction, is rapidly stealing the march on us. Volvo has adapted its BZL chassis as a RHD three-door, low-floor bus for their market. It involved some serious rearrangement of components at the rear of the bus to achieve this, so it's obvious they will adapt if there's a market for it. This one is a candidate for the Perth CATs and (if only we had all-door loading) the Gong Shuttle. Maybe other Australian city shuttle loops too.

https://landtransportguru.net/volvo-bzl ... ent-152658

The only things I don't like is the rear door being not wide enough and the rear aisle far too narrow. On the other hand, the plug doors are excellent. More buses should be using them.

Tower Transit is a Transit Systems subsidiary. Perhaps this will filter back to the Australian operations?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by rogf24 »

The 601 service in Melbourne now has the Volvo BZL running every weekday. No rear door but it is low-floor with a double-leaf centre door (not low-entry) and it does do all-door boarding (actually every route and every bus stop is now all-door boarding in Melbourne now, drivers will open the centre door if you look like you want to get on using it no arguments). A very refreshing experience compared to some diesel buses and Sydney boarding. Felt far ahead of anything Sydney would do.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

rogf24 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:24 pm The 601 service in Melbourne now has the Volvo BZL running every weekday. No rear door but it is low-floor with a double-leaf centre door (not low-entry) and it does do all-door boarding (actually every route and every bus stop is now all-door boarding in Melbourne now, drivers will open the centre door if you look like you want to get on using it no arguments). A very refreshing experience compared to some diesel buses and Sydney boarding. Felt far ahead of anything Sydney would do.
Good to see somewhere on this landmass we are not a total backwater, without having to travel beyond the Nullabor plain. Anywhere but Sydney is where your have hope in getting away from willful dysfunction.
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