NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Tonyp, if your talking about that one so called ZDI that's in existence then I hope for Newcastle's sake the problems with it are ironed out when the first 3 buses supposedly come into service at the end of the year, despite being full low floor (from what I was able to see from a video posted here a long time ago). The window lines continue up as if the bus had a high floor section to the rear but it doesn't meat up with where the seats are so this created an issue if I'm recalling correctly where the seats were way too low for passengers to be able to look out the window. European buses have never had this issue with their low floors (except for the rear window in certain instances).

It's disappointing when the Europeans make it look like a walk in the park but when it comes to the same solution here somehow we just throw it into the too hard / tuff basket. I really have no idea why SA signed off on that ZDI, hoping Keolis Downer / TNSW won't repeat history but you know government agencies & operators (and no offense) but out of touch and what they personally think is best.

I'm partly hoping when CDC NSW get's it's backside into gear they'll likely go with the BZL given as I've perhaps said before their happy Volvo customers, I'd love to hear their plans since their Victorian counterpart has been over them but their NSW side.... really really relatively quite.
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tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

That ZDI you're referring to is the prototype developed a few years back. It had some undisclosed problems, range I suspect being the main one. There's been a huge time frame since then but they now have a different battery supplier and the design of the bus had been changed a lot, but I have no idea of the detail because it has been kept well under wraps. I believe they're in production now on Gold Coast for Queensland. Not sure if it's still going to be a low floor because afaik they've developed a standard chassis that can accommodate both diesel and electric drive. That means the electric motor is centred under the rear of the bus - real 1990s stuff, hopelessly outdated if true. All we can do is wait and see.

The CD Element is a "walk in the park" European design (though designed in Australia). That's the one to go for as an Australian manufactured bus. I'd give Volvo second place because the chassis is imported and it has a high floor for the last two seat rows - something that could have been totally avoidable. Although Volvo has a high profile here, it's not the first brand that European operators would go for in seeking an electric bus.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Orana aesthetic »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:13 pm Tonyp, if your talking about that one so called ZDI that's in existence then I hope for Newcastle's sake the problems with it are ironed out when the first 3 buses supposedly come into service at the end of the year, despite being full low floor (from what I was able to see from a video posted here a long time ago). The window lines continue up as if the bus had a high floor section to the rear but it doesn't meat up with where the seats are so this created an issue if I'm recalling correctly where the seats were way too low for passengers to be able to look out the window. European buses have never had this issue with their low floors (except for the rear window in certain instances).
Bustech's new electric bus in Hobart looks to be a step up on the comical thing they inflicted upon Adelaide. It has a better window line and less wasted space at the back.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

I'm pretty sure from what I've seen on a Facebook group that the Hobart example is using a BYD (D9RA?) chassis which would highly differ from whatever improvements Bustech has / will be making accordingly to their future upcoming ZDI's. It doesn't look too bad through.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

This one has certainly crept in under the radar. It's not even in Fleetlists. This is all I can find:

https://www.tasmaniatalks.com.au/newsro ... t-visitors


BustechHobart.jpg
BustechHobart.jpg (35.72 KiB) Viewed 1967 times

It could be the new ZDi, impossible to tell from these photos. Does anybody have any more exterior or interior photos? It's not even mentioned in the Tasmanian section of this forum.

Compare with this one and only released photo of the second version of the ZDi:

zdi2.jpg

Some, but not all, similarities.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Nice front. Did they employ overseas designers this time?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Orana aesthetic »

I hadn't seen that front view of the ZDi before, but the design matches up with this render (complete with typo).Image
The very flat front is typical Bustech, but the window line certainly isn't. Definitely a different design to the Hobart bus (which I can't find any info about aside from the fact it exists). It's bizarre how Bustech's website makes it look like it has Arrival envy - a company that has never built a production vehicle.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

That front clip makes a huge impact on it's looks. Quite a nice looking bus.

Window line helps too.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Orana aesthetic wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:58 pm I hadn't seen that front view of the ZDi before, but the design matches up with this render (complete with typo).
The very flat front is typical Bustech, but the window line certainly isn't. Definitely a different design to the Hobart bus (which I can't find any info about aside from the fact it exists). It's bizarre how Bustech's website makes it look like it has Arrival envy - a company that has never built a production vehicle.
That's definitely the ZDi. The Hobart buses (two of them apparently) look like a bespoke job on an imported chassis, unlike the integral ZDi. It has the sloping window line of the XDi at the front but then goes to a straight window line to the back, slightly higher than the window line on the ZDi. I wonder which factory they were built at? Views of the interior of both buses are awaited with interest.

I note that the publicity for this Hobart bus suffers the Wellington (NZ) syndrome - they're described as the "first electric buses in Hobart"! The first electric buses I ever rode anywhere were in Hobart many years ago and what a revelation they were, compared to the vibrating, noisy underfloors and deckers in Sydney. They were just beautiful buses, both for their comfortable design and their smooth, silent ride. I've been all for electric transit ever since. Ironically they were an environmentalist's dream, powered mostly by hydro. Now apparently we are told that this is the "latest" new invention, brought to you by people with no memory of transport history - and the same hydro power is now delivered to the bus by a somewhat less efficient and weightier method. Next they'll discover that there's a better way. "Progress" is just a series of circles, expensively reinventing what we've forgotten.

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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by GriffinRoads1 »

More trolleybusses is the best long-term solution, but christ imagine how our governments would rebuild it! Car-biased media houding at it 24/7, it begins with a huge budget, blowsot about 20 times, opens and is underwhelming.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Trolleys give the same sense of permanence as trams and can be faster if set up right with priority at all intersections. Australian cities just lack the political impetus they seem to need to justify any transport project.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

tonyp wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:45 am This one has certainly crept in under the radar. It's not even in Fleetlists. This is all I can find:

https://www.tasmaniatalks.com.au/newsro ... t-visitors

It could be the new ZDi, impossible to tell from these photos. Does anybody have any more exterior or interior photos? It's not even mentioned in the Tasmanian section of this forum.
I'm part of a big enthusiast bus group on Facebook where members from all around the country of course post bus photos, a member on there posted a photo of the Skybus E-Bus on April 1st to the group and it is definitely a BYD D9RA & not an integrated build (AKA the supposed ZDI), there was a dashboard picture to confirm it and no it isn't full low floor either, another low entry build.

given that the photo was posted to a private group, I can't directly share the photo as of course I'm not the photographer and don't have their permission to share.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:43 pm
I'm part of a big enthusiast bus group on Facebook where members from all around the country of course post bus photos, a member on there posted a photo of the Skybus E-Bus on April 1st to the group and it is definitely a BYD D9RA & not an integrated build (AKA the supposed ZDI), there was a dashboard picture to confirm it and no it isn't full low floor either, another low entry build.

given that the photo was posted to a private group, I can't directly share the photo as of course I'm not the photographer and don't have their permission to share.
Thanks, I'd got the general picture and that confirms it. BYD only supply low entry chassis here and they have a really high climb to the high floor, hopeless for airport services where people have luggage.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Inexcusable to be selling that product here. Thank goodness for the Dunns saving Customs and giving us the promising home grown Element.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

Anyone know when the Next 6 Elements are arriving at Busways?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by 1whoknows »

The Skybus Tas unit pictures further up the thread is one of two Bustech bodied BYDs for the Hobart airport service. They were not yet in service over the recent long weekend as still awaiting some regulatory sign offs. For Tony there are no interior steps but the floor is slighty ramped towards the rear. If there was a rear door a step might be required. Usual airporter layout with 35 seats and luggage racks on the near side. The units were viewed on the recent TCBS tour but pics embargoed until after the official launch.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

1whoknows wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:32 am The Skybus Tas unit pictures further up the thread is one of two Bustech bodied BYDs for the Hobart airport service. They were not yet in service over the recent long weekend as still awaiting some regulatory sign offs. For Tony there are no interior steps but the floor is slighty ramped towards the rear. If there was a rear door a step might be required. Usual airporter layout with 35 seats and luggage racks on the near side. The units were viewed on the recent TCBS tour but pics embargoed until after the official launch.
It sounds like the usual Bustech sloping floor. This works OK in a bus without a rear door. In a bus with a rear door it results in steps at the door. So it seems to be the usual BYD low entry chassis, not a low floor chassis.

I gather Hobart airport is a pretty quiet affair!
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

For there perfectly fine, as a Sydney bus for premier Gladys to cheap out, unacceptable.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stu »

The Electric Bus Pilot Program.
3 x year trial led by Transgrid and Zenobe.
TfNSW & Transit Systems Region 6. Leichhardt Depot.
Infrastructure upgrades commenced August 2021. The project is being delivered in 3 x stages. The buses are also being delivered in accordance to the completion of each stage.
Stage 1. 12 x BYD electric buses.
Stage 2. 19 x BYD electric buses.
Stage 3. Combination of BYD electric and Yutong electric.

Solar PV is provided by Smart Commercial Solar and the Australian National University will be analysing a vast amount of data across all areas of the operation of each bus.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

The first 2 of the next batch of Penrith Busways Elements have arrived 5006/5007 although neither spotted in service yet.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Swift wrote: Why is Likart going Asian when when there's a home grown product about 25km away? Are they unpatriotic putting a foreigner first?
Transit Systems had Scanias that were approaching their maximum age limit. At the time the order was placed with BYD in December 2020 for 31 BYDs, the Custom Denning Element prototype hadn't been completed, so it wasn't an option.
Swift wrote: This electric bus plan is no plan at all.
In other words, why would anybody buy anything other than an Element? That multiple Sydney operators have purchased their electrics from other manufacturers would suggest good a product as it may be, it isn't the be-all and end-all.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Linto63 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:02 am
Swift wrote: This electric bus plan is no plan at all.
In other words, why would anybody buy anything other than an Element? That multiple Sydney operators have purchased their electrics from other manufacturers would suggest good a product as it may be, it isn't the be-all and end-all.
It suggests they're as tight as a destitute Scotsman. By all reports, the Element practically is the be all and end all compared to the competition.
Now it is available, time to stop the nonsense and go order local.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by boronia »

I wonder if this is part of the plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-yN8SugWM
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Swift wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:41 amIt suggests they're as tight as a destitute Scotsman. By all reports, the Element practically is the be all and end all compared to the competition.
How could Transit Systems have bought something that didn't exist? Maybe the Element is the Rolls-Royce of EV buses, but that will come at a price. Transit Systems is a business and makes its purchasing decisions based on facts, not emotion or sentiment.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

So how does fleet procurement work in NSW? You have the approved bus list - does the operator have to bear the full cost of procurement or does the Government offer some incentive for it?
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