NSW Electric Bus Plan

[tonyp]

A few days ago, Volgren posted a video clip of a new BZL/Optimus for Busways, with number 5062. Unfortunately, this particular example only has a single leaf rear door and is presumably for normal route service (as opposed to airport services).

Even for normal route service it should have a double leaf door. Panel 4 must be lowering standards even further.

[alleve]

tonyp is right. I'm surprised to be seeing new buses with single doors. It's not the end of the world but still disappointing.

Otherwise it's good seeing that the Volvo Volgren combo will be entering service soon. It's been a couple years since CDC first floated the idea.

[Bovways]

Does single vs double leaf rear doors really slow up exit as much as it used to though? The main delay in getting pax off the bus is the Opal tap-off, especially for those using phones rather than physical cards. It's not like when you used to pull up to the main stops in the old days and everyone could just charge off.

[tonyp]

Does single vs double leaf rear doors really slow up exit as much as it used to though? The main delay in getting pax off the bus is the Opal tap-off, especially for those using phones rather than physical cards. It's not like when you used to pull up to the main stops in the old days and everyone could just charge off.

Yes it absolutely does - and entry too.

[Merc1107]

From the next state up on the Eastern Seaboard (QLD): buses with a single-leaf rear door are excruciatingly slow with all-door ops when the majority seem to prefer back-door loading over using the front. Add in the constant dummy-spits and hissyfits from the "smart" ticketing system (at least there are two validators to each door, although a third, even fourth, wouldn't necessarily go astray), and it's a recipe for very long dwells, even if it is quicker than front door entry only.

[Swift]

I can’t believe BT made those single pane centre doors the norm after their high standard setting full width doors in the 60s used for years afterwards. If Brisbane wants to shake off it’s country town image, this is not the way nor is trying to emulate Sydney 2000 Olympics 32 years later, when no one wants it.

[tonyp]

I had the experience of boarding a peak hour Bustech in Canberra through a centre door that was not only single leaf, but had stairs. It took excruciating ages. Most operators and manufacturers here simply don't get it.

[Geo101]

Does single vs double leaf rear doors really slow up exit as much as it used to though?

Aside from the obvious, it's more likely that the passengers which "dwell" in said enclosures, are more likey to do so in a double door scenario, rather than a single one?

It's one of my pet hates.

From my experiance, with the above obversation, with the requirement to tap out, (and get the door hoggers to actually sit down in a seat) its pretty much a muchness these days?

At least in peak periods, they put their smart devises down and get off, then get back on, and continue to block the exit until they get off?

A triple door won't get rid of this behaviour?

Just get a seat, I say? Be social, use a seat instead of blocking the exit....

[tonyp]

A triple door won't get rid of this behaviour?

Just get a seat, I say? Be social, use a seat instead of blocking the exit....

Go over to Europe (or Singapore too I presume, I haven't been there lately) and observe the phemonenal speed of passenger exchange through three doors (or four doors in an artic). The use of plug doors (which the Element uses) speeds it up even more as it widens the opening. They also tend to place the readers on the opposite side of the aisle to encourage people to move inside.

As a person with restricted mobility I certainly would go and take a seat if it wasn't for stairs in the aisle limiting my access to half the seats in the bus. If the front seats are full, I stand near the centre door so I don't get trapped inside when I want to get off. Want to argue with me about it?

Having travelled on our buses since Paleolithic times, I can tell you the best time - when buses had a door at the front and a door at the back behind the rear axle and you could board or exit through both. The crowd from each met in the middle of the bus and exited the way they entered. Of course, like the Europeans, another door in the centre would have helped, but the buses were only 10 metres long, so it wasn't too much of a problem. The Sydney tram people also knew to have doors at the ends as well as the centre and their average dwell times were about 8 seconds.

Everything fell apart on buses when they moved the back door down to the centre (due to driver-only operation) and created a dead-end cave up the back that resulted in conflicting passenger movement and discouraging people from going down there. Then they got rid of conductors without simultaneously replacing them with a prepaid fare system, introduced front-door only boarding and everything literally ground to a halt at bus stops.

Sydney used to be world-leading in the science of moving passengers. SInce then they've lost it and we see the appalling results nowadays. Good on Custom Denning for their professionalism in plotting a path forward out of this.

[Swift]

Sydney used to be world-leading in the science of moving passengers. SInce then they've lost it and we see the appalling results nowadays. Good on Custom Denning for their professionalism in plotting a path forward out of this.

It took owners of UK background to do this. Australians would be little chance. Rather ironic with the UK’s adherence to single door except Lothian and London.

[SpanningViaduct]

Could be a long shot, but a recent VDI post on their Facebook has in the back corner a TfNSW E12 at I'm assuming to be their Eagle Farm facility in Bris. The first of the 108 E12's on order?

VDI.png

[SpanningViaduct]

BYD chassis’ bodied by Volgren will make up some of the recent 151 electric bus order. No word on the split between Custom and BYD buses however. Correct in assuming that this is the first order for the new BC12B1 low entry chassis since the D9RA has been discontinued?
https://www.busnews.com.au/tfnsw-confir ... bus-order/

[trackless tram]

As previously mentioned, out of these 151 electric buses, Custom builds 91, so the remaining 60 are the BYD/Volgren.

[alleve]

Correct in assuming that this is the first order for the new BC12B1 low entry chassis since the D9RA has been discontinued?

For Sydney, yeah. Don't know if anywhere else in NSW or Aus has them.

[Aurora]

The transport minister said recently 56 would be from Custom and 95 from Volgren.

[SpanningViaduct]

^^That conflicts with a previous post. Any sources would be great.

[Stu]

TfNSW media release. NSW Transport Minister. 25/8/2025.
151 new electric buses are another step to zero emission fleet.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... sion-fleet

The media release text has been 'copied and pasted' by numerous websites.

[Swift]

TfNSW media release. NSW Transport Minister. 25/8/2025.
151 new electric buses are another step to zero emission fleet.

That’s a hell of a bold statement to make. What about the energy that goes into producing the batteries. LIES!!
Does the electricity to recharge them come from solar and wind power or does coal play the majority part?
Absolute smoke and mirrors in its most pure form.

[trackless tram]

Interesting, as per below it was meant to be 95 for Custom (=56 for BYD/Volgren)

…

Local bus manufacturer warns of closure over Chinese exports
…
Daily Telegraph
March 18, 2025 - 5:00AM
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...o ... c#comments

…
It is understood that the government is waiting on the maintenance of more than 20 older Custom Denning buses from its transport fleet.
A spokesperson for Transport Minister John Graham said they were interested in purchasing 95 buses from Custom Denning.
…

[tonyp]

TfNSW media release. NSW Transport Minister. 25/8/2025.
151 new electric buses are another step to zero emission fleet.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... sion-fleet

The media release text has been 'copied and pasted' by numerous websites.

Not helped by this extraordinarily confused rendition in ABC magazine:

https://www.busnews.com.au/tfnsw-confir ... bus-order/

First they say that TfNSW tells them that all chassis and bodies will be manufactured in NSW. Then they tell us that part of the order will be BYD chassis from China and Volgren bodies from Melbourne.

At least they didn't repeat the barefaced lie in the media release that the last government ordered no new electric buses in its last term. And the last government ended diesel orders for Sydney. They didn't acquire 160 diesels like the present hypocritical government has done - a number that exceeds this electric bus order!

I was hoping we'd seen the last of BYD and they'd now turn to the Volvo BZL for their imports - provided they don't stuff up the body like the Western Sydney Airport one. I'm disappointed.

[Aurora]

^^That conflicts with a previous post. Any sources would be great.

Discussed directly in budget estimates a few weeks ago. It is in the transcript.

[tonyp]

Discussed directly in budget estimates a few weeks ago. It is in the transcript.

That should read: 96 partly from Victoria (and partly from China) and 56 wholly from NSW.

[SpanningViaduct]

Didn’t Ward visit the St Mary’s factory? She ought to know the Element is a wholly integral product. Perhaps that’s just typically opposition slandering to forgo the facts.

[alleve]

Didn’t Ward visit the St Mary’s factory? She ought to know the Element is a wholly integral product. Perhaps that’s just typically opposition slandering to forgo the facts.

She possibly misspoke. Alternatively, she doesn't remember. I'd be lying if I said I had faith it wasn't the latter.

[1whoknows]

Ward may have been referring to the fact that the batteries etc are built overseas for the Elements.