NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Swift
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Linto63 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 12:50 pm
Swift wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:36 amWhy not buses too. The government can offer extended fleet age permits for extra incentive.
Because existing buses are unlikely to have the strength to carry rooftop batteries. Unless a bus has been designed with EV conversion in mind, unlikely it would be economical.

I'd say an 11 litre rear engine leaves plenty of room and weight capacity for battery packs, then turn to the roof for any additional packs, maybe just to run the A/C and lighting if need be. You may be right and you may be wrong regards roof strength. Do the motors even need to be that powerful anyway? Gearing them down with a top speed of 80km/h may allow for smaller less power consuming traction motors.
Cars have been getting electrified by owners in the garages for decades. It's hardly that technically challenging to convert a bus when they're doing it to heavy haulage trucks.
Sounds like people want to bury the idea.
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Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Without having an extensive knowledge of the engineering characteristics none of us can say with any authority whether it is possible, but a pointer is what is happening in countries that further down the rollout of EVs than we are.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

You'd think it would be explored since Australian bus operators are always looking for the cheapest option they can get away with.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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But it is not the operators who are in a position to explore this sort of thing.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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It's probably safe to assume that it has been explored in other countries that are several years ahead of us in the rollout of EVs. That it doesn't appear to have caught on tells a story. In most capital cities, buses are leased by government and sub-leased to operators, so any rebuilding wouldn't be funded by operators.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Fleet Lists wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:21 pm But it is not the operators who are in a position to explore this sort of thing.
No but they may provide a ready market for a company to develop a way to do it.

Here's an example of a bus operator who came up with their own solution well before today's battery technology.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/166796028@N08/51168599681
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Linto63 wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:27 pm In most capital cities, buses are leased by government and sub-leased to operators, so any rebuilding wouldn't be funded by operators.
When they reach EOL, they are disposed of via auction or scrapped (depending on condition or whether the market wants such sorry vehicles).

Diesel conversion was carried out on at least some ex BT CNG L94s post-auction, perhaps at excessive cost relative to a chassis with 1mil kilometres, but when compared to the cost of a brand-new bus, it may not have been so foolish. We have other instances where buses were cleverly rebodied - take the Customs rebodies of Sydney Worldmasters as one example (a staple of Perth charter operators into the 2010s).

As technology advances, reusing old diesel or CNG chassis may not be so cost-prohibitive. So to assert that the idea is unviable because the Europeans aren't doing it is perhaps ignorant of prevailing ideologies over there; they replace their fleets at perhaps half the age Australia does, so it is probably not as economic nor favourable in the eyes of a public used to young fleets.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by eddy »

Just a very, very, very rough drawing of my idea of an electric bus with a huge sliding door behind the front axle so the driver can still see all passengers are safe a bit like some English DD.

It would have two forklift batteries that can easily be changed or charged overnight depending on the green power.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... ectric-bus
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

There have been a number of conversions of diesel buses to trolley buses over the past couple of decades, typically in Central and Eastern Europe where it's a cheaper solution than buying new electric buses. After all, the body and chassis are fundamentally the same. The main motivation has been to increase the availability of accessible buses through acquiring low entry and low floor diesels and dropping electric drive into them.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Has happened the other way too. Auckland converted some near new Volvos in the 1980s after it closed its trolleybus network. Evidently the space required for diesel and trolley buses equipment is much the same. But a showstopper for converting diesels to EVs may be the batteries, both in terms of weight and physical space.

Wellington proposed that its trolleys be converted to EVs when withdrawn in 2017, but haven't heard of it progressing
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Was scrapped after one prototype
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/11568986 ... -scrapheap

Think conversions will only happen in countries where cost of mechanics is pretty cheap, and even then probably only with high floor buses where you've got more space lower down.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Swift wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:04 pm
Fleet Lists wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:21 pm But it is not the operators who are in a position to explore this sort of thing.
No but they may provide a ready market for a company to develop a way to do it.

Here's an example of a bus operator who came up with their own solution well before today's battery technology.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/166796028@N08/51168599681
'Going back nearly seventy years when they were not subject to approval by such authorities as Transport for NSW locally.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Still only seen a max of two Elements operating out of Bondi at any time on Anytrip.
Are they not in full service yet?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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There is also one just departing from Olympic Park on route 4 to Maroubra and also one to Olympic PArk - they would not go near Bondi.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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moa999 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:22 pm Still only seen a max of two Elements operating out of Bondi at any time on Anytrip.
Only a sole Denning Element from Transdev John Holland out at the moment as of this post which is currently operating the 323 North Bondi. The other night I noted that there was no elements running from TDJH after sundown.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Wouldn't it be fun to have advertising for Energiser Max batteries or the like.
The slogan could read this bus will get you home thanks to [battery product].
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Knowing our government, they'll probably focus on that more than anythign else.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Unfortunately I know our government all too well.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

There was two Custom Denning elements from Transdev John Holland ex STA (3125 & 3126 ST) doing route 4 at Olypmic park earlier today
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Fleet Lists wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:44 pm There is also one just departing from Olympic Park on route 4 to Maroubra and also one to Olympic PArk - they would not go near Bondi.
As well as on the 13th I also saw them on the 14th and again today.
But how did you identify the registrations?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

I was actually at Olympic park earlier today photographing some of the shuttle buses so that's how I was able to ID them, on ST plates.

interestingly they were not showing up on real time trackers at all.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Thank you.
I have seen them onreal time trackers on each of the three days I referred to.
And I just photographed Punchbowl m/o 8090 in TfNSW livery along Bellingara Road, Miranda outside of where I live.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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And then the tracker showed another one which I captured in nearly same position except that it was a little bit darker - it was m/o 8415 this time in the special electric bus livery.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Noel »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:36 pm There was two Custom Denning elements from Transdev John Holland ex STA (3125 & 3126 ST) doing route 4 at Olypmic park earlier today
That was me in (3125). I've never been so popular with the photographers in my life :lol:
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

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Fleet Lists wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:09 pm Thank you.
I have seen them onreal time trackers on each of the three days I referred to.
And I just photographed Punchbowl m/o 8090 in TfNSW livery along Bellingara Road, Miranda outside of where I live.
m/o 8090 was tracked as an electric bus but just received an email from the operator :"the first one is actually a Scania K320 diesel bus with Custom Endeavour body. The only one in our fleet." So the tracking system has got that wrong.
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