NSW Electric Bus Plan

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Stonesourscotty wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:17 pm Appears the rest of the Elements for Penrith Busways have arrived. Seem to all be parked near the Staff Cars.
CD says that they've sold 30. I count 10 to region 9, 12 to Busways and one to Victoria. Don't know where the rest are at this stage - some probably still in process.
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1whoknows
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by 1whoknows »

Add two demos to that - one that has been with Sunbury and the other last sighted with Blanch's, Ballina in May.
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Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Unsurprisingly, Rob Stokes has admitted that the 2030 date for Sydney having a 100% electric fleet won't be achieved.

NSW’s bold target to electrify bus fleet running five years late (Sydney Morning Herald)
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Swift »

Our politicians are absolute idiots. They just nominate a nice neat round figure and go mindlessly "we're going to go [insert BS here] by 2030/2040/2045 and then alter the so called plan on the run and the stupid public keep accepting it while they continue paying their mortgages.

NSW is always going to be a middle of the road cesspit of mediocrity.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

This is old news from 2 1/2 months ago. Aunty and Granny have just woken up from their afternoon nap.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/z ... s-new-gear
moa999
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Stonesourscotty wrote:Appears the rest of the Elements for Penrith Busways have arrived. Seem to all be parked near the Staff Cars.
Are they going to operate?
Because the Waverley ones still seem to be sitting idle after the Paris fire.
Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

Continuing from here
tonyp wrote: I doubt that Elliott and Stokes would have phrased it in this way. The issue is the way these two media outlets have turned it into a negative, ignoring the fact that NSW was the first state to initiate bus electrification in a major way. Constance started it as a challenge and blind freddy should know that the next step was for bureaucracy to start the analysis and programming, including consultation with stakeholders, then set up a firm program and refined timeline. But of course there's an election coming up and the ABC and SMH are angling for any dirt they can throw on the government.
Doesn't matter what spin you want to put on it, it was a failure to deliver, and rightly has been pointed out. I don't think the ABC or Nine are being particularly negative, merely pointing out where the government has failed, as they should do. As far as angling for dirt, the media haven't had to dig too far given the number of self inflicted wounds the government has inflicted upon itself recently. Not quite as bad as the fourth term of the last government, but getting up there.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

There's a big difference in saying "All the buses in the fleet will be electric by 2030" versus "We will investigate whether all the buses in the fleet can be electric by 2030". From the beginning it sounded more like the former, acting THEN stopping and thinking about it, only to realise it probably wasn't particularly achievable in the first place - particularly in encouraging manufacturers to expand to handle a heightened production volume on top of existing commitments that would collapse after a few short years (then have to restart again a few years later to begin replacing the first electrics!).

As is often discussed around here, manufacturers need a steady volume of work to keep the doors open; which some states achieve by locking in years-long contracts for hundreds of buses to be delivered. If memory serves correct, that's the direction NSW might've been heading to delivery on a "All electric by X date" commitment. Although the issue with Elements being grounded due to the batteries does serve as a warning against putting the eggs into one basket.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

I find it strange for me to be defending Constance because he could be rather erratic at times and I wasn't a great fan of him, but I read his original announcement as a motivational one and that is what he's now saying to defend himself. Nobody thought at the time that that deadline would be achievable, one of the obvious consequences being that the manufacturing industry would fall off a cliff at the end of such a short timescale. But I think it was fair enough for him to make that announcement as a stimulant, at which it certainly succeeded. The point is that a unit was then set up in Transport to address the goal in detail, consulting all stakeholders, and they subsequently released a more detailed program and timeline. The ABC and SMH are trying to portray the story as something it isn't.

The outcome is that the objective for Sydney has been pushed back a mere five years to 2035. For the country, the goal has been pushed back to 2047, which is very much in line with the practical, achievable goals for automobile electrification in the light of the realisation that it's just not practicable for rural areas at a distance. Similarly, in that case, the deeper analysis of the pragmatics of electric cars followed initial lofty fanfares that we'll have total automobile electrification by 2030 or whatever. The difference is that the bus sector has a pragmatic approach, whereas for the general public and their cars the fanatics are trying to make it compulsory and it will end in political grief.

What really p..s me off is that NSW has been absolutely leading the way on bus electrification in Australia by a long way and a headline that NSW is "delaying" it is just galling and so wrong. Queensland has been running second after an initial wait-and-see. Other states and territories are just waking up now, but - thanks to Constance - the push started early in NSW.
moa999
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Agreed for all the negative press that the Coalition gets on the environment.

The NSW branch has been remarkably progressive on both electric buses and electric cars - both in subsidies and nation leading funding of EV chargers.
As well as obviously spending billions on other forms of electric transit (buses and light rail)

Meanwhile the Victorian Labor government is already collecting additional taxes from EVs and PHEVs
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Merc1107 »

moa999 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:03 pmMeanwhile the Victorian Labor government is already collecting additional taxes from EVs and PHEVs
I think the Victorias may have the right idea here, versus locking in generous subsidies that will eventually prove bothersome (political suicide) to remove when saturation occurs. What Australia needs is not "more electric cars," we need less cars, be they electric or petrol/diesel/gas.
moa999
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by moa999 »

Eventually some alternate mechanism will be needed to fund roads (rather than petrol taxes).

And that also needs to look at the considerable Diesel subsidies.

But it shouldn't be implemented now, and it should be a Federal matter not a State matter - the Vic government isn't seeing a reduction in revenue.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Stonesourscotty »

moa999 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:30 am
Stonesourscotty wrote:Appears the rest of the Elements for Penrith Busways have arrived. Seem to all be parked near the Staff Cars.
Are they going to operate?
Because the Waverley ones still seem to be sitting idle after the Paris fire.
Ironically the ex Waverley B10BLEs are covering Penriths Elements along with a few extra workings from other local depots
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

I've scanned the last two pages of this thread but haven't seen any recent talk about Transit Systems Foton Hydrogen bus.

Image

Anyone know the model name of this Foton bus and whether it'll be Flat floor or low entry?


Article here but doesn't really go into too much technical detail specification wise.
https://www.truckdeal.com.ph/articles/t ... gen-busses
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Fleet Lists
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Fleet Lists »

Here is the fleet list information added yesterday
Operator Transit Systems NSW
Registration u/r
Chassis Type Foton BJ6123FCEVCH-3
Chassis No LVCB4L4D7NM003228
Body Manufacturer Foton
Body No -
Body Date 4/22
Status To Be Delivered
Seating Codes B44DW
Livery TSA Hydrogen
Date Last Change 07/09/2022
Living in the Shire.
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ScaniaGrenda
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Forgot to check the Fleet lists (whoops!)

> Chassis Type Foton BJ6123FCEVCH-3

You would've thought that by now they'd come up with something more creative but I suppose coming from half of the manufacturers responsible for creating Chinese knock-offs (sometimes unlicensed) of American & Japanese vehicles that is realistically expecting far too much.

Yutong may or may not be still using a similar naming system behind the scenes but thankfully they've at least had sense to keep it short & precise for various bus operators, E12 & E13. I would never be able to remember Fotons model name.
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tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:13 pm Anyone know the model name of this Foton bus and whether it'll be Flat floor or low entry?
Article here but doesn't really go into too much technical detail specification wise.
https://www.truckdeal.com.ph/articles/t ... gen-busses
Foton BJ6123FCEVCH-3

Flat floor most of the way to the back, then a couple of step-ups, a bit like the Volvo.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Reviewing where we're at with electric buses in NSW, not counting demonstrators:

Busabout 5 YT

Busways 12 CD

Interline 10 YT 3 BCI

Punchbowl 5 BYD

Transdev/T-JH 10 CD 4 BYD

Transit Systems 45 BYD 10 YT

Total: 104

Nothing in regions afaik. Any corrections appreciated.
Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: The ABC and SMH are trying to portray the story as something it isn't.
Government makes a claim, and then has to backtrack. May not suit some people's narrative, but was clearly back peddling on an earlier statement, and media agencies are correct to point it out. Moral of the story, ministers should do at least some homework before making statements rather than announcing policy on the run.
tonyp wrote: What really p..s me off is that NSW has been absolutely leading the way on bus electrification in Australia by a long way and a headline that NSW is "delaying" it is just galling and so wrong. Queensland has been running second after an initial wait-and-see. Other states and territories are just waking up now, but - thanks to Constance - the push started early in NSW.
Leading the way is over egging it, crawling along would be more apt description of what has been achieved. The rest of the world has been rolling out electric buses for years, NSW was hardly an early adopter. If moving an implementation date from 2030 to 2047 isn't a delay, then what is it?
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:58 pm Reviewing where we're at with electric buses in NSW, not counting demonstrators:

Busabout 5 YT

Busways 12 CD

Interline 10 YT 3 BCI

Punchbowl 5 BYD

Transdev/T-JH 10 CD 4 BYD

Transit Systems 45 BYD 10 YT

Total: 104

Nothing in regions afaik. Any corrections appreciated.
Busabout only has 4 BYDs there is not a Yutong in their fleet yet I live in region 15 whitch takes in areas of the greater Campbelltown LGA and the whole Camden LGA I've never seen a Yutong operated by Busabout
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:15 am Busabout only has 4 BYDs there is not a Yutong in their fleet yet I live in region 15 whitch takes in areas of the greater Campbelltown LGA and the whole Camden LGA I've never seen a Yutong operated by Busabout
Since they're not in Fleetlists, I was going by a news item on their website that said 5 buses and the photo looked like a Yutong.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:42 am Government makes a claim, and then has to backtrack.
As I said, it was a motivational announcement. Constance knew what he was doing. NSW was first in Australia to successfully lead the way on battery electric buses and has the largest fleet to date.
Linto63
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote:Constance knew what he was doing.
Which was clearly dumb, setting an unachievable target makes a rod for his own back. If he hadn't made the statement, there wouldn't have been anything for the media to 'sensationalise' (it that's your opinion of this week's reporting) and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
tonyp
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by tonyp »

The ABC, Nine media and the Guardian are just looking for negatives to hang on the government before the election, even to the extent of turning positives into negatives. Their motivation is obvious to anybody who knows the truth, but of course they're playing the general public who aren't around the details of what the government has achieved. So we end up with the lie that the government isn't doing much about bus electrification. It's pretty disgusting and I don't blame Constance for that.
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Re: NSW Electric Bus Plan

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:44 pm The ABC, Nine media and the Guardian are just looking for negatives to hang on the government before the election, even to the extent of turning positives into negatives. Their motivation is obvious to anybody who knows the truth, but of course they're playing the general public who aren't around the details of what the government has achieved. So we end up with the lie that the government isn't doing much about bus electrification. It's pretty disgusting and I don't blame Constance for that.
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