New Sydney and Outer Metro bus contracts (as from 2020)

[Linto63]

The history of each Sydney bus route can be found here.

[Campbelltown busboy]

The history of each Sydney bus route can be found here.

I know the website but I don't know the areas where those routes operated so figuring out the lefts and rights lose me when it comes to the number of turns that the bus has to take during the route

[Fleet Lists]

https://sydneybusroutes.com/sydney-regi ... e-numbers/ lists the groups of route numbers so it is very easy to find the information from there for each route.

And while on that website, for route 925 it shows for the second entry:

Route 925
LIDCOMBE – BANKSTOWN – CONDELL PARK – PANANIA – EAST HILLS
Timeline
18 September 2006:
 New route, Bankstown – Condell Park – Panania – East Hills, replacing parts of 924, 925, 926, 930 & 935 as
a result of Ministry of Transport review of Contract Region 13.
 Selected trips ran Bankstown – Bankstown Hospital.
 Operated by Transit First (Thelkeld family).
1 February 2007: Transferred to Veolia Transport.
14 December 2009: 912 & 925 amalgamated as 925, Lidcombe – Bankstown – Condell Park – Panania – East Hills.
Selected trips continue to run Bankstown – Bankstown Hospital or Lidcombe – Bankstown – Bankstown Hospital.
14 March 2011: Rerouted via Muir Rd & Hume Hwy instead of part of Rookwood Rd. Rerouted 908 serves part of
missed section of Rookwood Rd.
1 July 2013: Operator’s name changed to Transdev following the merger of Transdev & Veolia Transport on 3
March 2011

Showing it as having been created as a review of region 13 so it would be assumed that it is region 13 but even then the southern part of the route (at least south of Milperra Road) would be in region 10 so it is still cross region.

[Fleet Lists]

It is believed that at the previous awarding of contracts, Transdev, unlike other operators, transferred leases of all their vehicles to Transport for NSW for continued use at the regions concerned so that should not be an issue now - they will go to CDC in the case of region 12 buses.

That applied to regions 10 and 13, but not 12.

Special treatment for Sydney Contracts

Thanks for that - I had not seen the attachment before and was not aware that it did not apply to region 12. This could leave buses like m/o 7385, 7655 and 7821 and possibly others, in an unusual situation as they were part of regions 10 or 13 but since transferred to region 12.

And regarding the electric buses, I agree that because of Transdev ownership, I would expect them to be transferred from region 12 before the change of region 12 operator takes place.

[Linto63]

As to which buses are included will be cut and dry as there would have been a definitive list of provided to bidders making them aware of which vehicles would be transferring and how many extras they would need to source.

Unless Transdev has a need for these vehicles elsewhere in its empire, logic would suggest that a sale to CDC of the pre-2007 buses would be negotiated. Transdev has a small number of TV plated vehicles based in region 12 for charters. Unlikely it will retain such a small charter only operation, so contracts will probably be let run down.

The two region 12 electrics may be TfNSW owned, having only ever operated in Sydney. The 2019 built one that Transdev previously operated in Melbourne is probably Transdev owned, or at least leased, but either way transferring ownership to TfNSW wouldn't be a problem.

[Glen]

Whitch of the 2 Bankstown to Strathfield route got through routed with the Liverpool to Bankstown 860 when the Liverpool to Burwood 900 the now M90 was being planed for region 13. The other Bankstown to Strathfield route became the 913

Route 486.

[Fleet Lists]

As to which buses are included will be cut and dry as there would have been a definitive list of provided to bidders making them aware of which vehicles would be transferring and how many extras they would need to source.

Unless Transdev has a need for these vehicles elsewhere in its empire, logic would suggest that a sale to CDC of the pre-2007 buses would be negotiated. Transdev has a small number of TV plated vehicles based in region 12 for charters. Unlikely it will retain such a small charter only operation, so contracts will probably be let run down.

I agree - I was continuing to answer the question as to what would happen to buses where the operator changes, as far as is known.

Following the hassle with the pre 2007 buses last time around, it would not surprise me if there is a clause in the latest tendering process that ALL contract buses would have to be included in any transfer to a new operator and that where appropriate the previous owner would be compensated for this. This would make it cut and dried as far as any bidders are concerned. Does anyone know if there is now such a prevision in the tendering process?

[Linto63]

Except the current operator would have to agree. Given the competitive advantage it gives them, unlikely they would have agreed. By the time the regions are next tendered there will be few if any pre-2007 buses around. Don't recall new operators particularly having problems procuring fleets. Busabout, Busways, Interline and Transit Systems all seemed to make it work through a combination of new and second-hand purchases after their predecessors took their fleets elsewhere.

[tonyp]

Transdev took away five Volgren/BYDs from Melbourne in 2021. They owned three of them. One went to Brisbane, which they own. Of the four in Sydney, presumably they own two and two belong to TfNSW.

[Linto63]

Only the 2019 built BYD was operated by Transdev Melbourne. The other four entered service in Brisbane and Sydney.

[tonyp]

Only the 2019 built BYD was operated by Transdev Melbourne. The other four entered service in Brisbane and Sydney.

I didn't say they all operated in Melbourne. I said they took five buses away from Melbourne. I didn't think I needed to say that one came from operation and four came from the Volgren factory, as I thought most people would know that.

[Linto63]

Ok, so you meant took delivery of five bodied in Melbourne, rather than transferred five from Transdev Melbourne.

[Campbelltown busboy]

The 887 used Bulli Pass between Campbelltown and Wollongong until the abolishment of the short lived 887X whitch might have been a test to see if doing the Campbelltown to Wollongong run via Mount Ousley was a better option time wise then going via Bulli Pass

[Fleet Lists]

What does this have to do with the new contracts? It happened 10 years ago.

[Campbelltown busboy]

What would a joint region 2/15 contract look like and what number would the region be officially documented as

[Linto63]

Map of all Sydney regions

[Campbelltown busboy]

Regions 2 and 15 do already share small sections of corridors in parts of the Campbelltown and Camden LGAs whitch includes Camden Valley way between Raby road and Narellan shopping centre and the Queen street Hurley street corridor though Campbelltown

[Stu]

What would a joint region 2/15 contract look like and what number would the region be officially documented as

I haven’t read or heard of a suggestion that regions will be merged, the idea of regions being merged was proposed by TfNSW a number of years ago which included a map that displayed the proposed changes.

Operators are encouraged to make a consolidated bid for multiple regions. This is beneficial for operators as resources can be be spread out across multiple regions which creates operational efficiencies, one obvious efficiency saving would be dead running.

The former STA operated four individual regions (6, 7, 8 & 9) all grouped together and currently Transdev operate Region 10 and Region 13 which has cross regional metrobus routes M91 & M92 operating across both regions.

Tranche 2. Regions 3, 5, 10 and 13.
North South orientation and East West orientation.
Possible combinations of bidding for multiple regions.
- Regions 13 & 10.
- Regions 13 & 3.
- Regions 13 & 5.
- Regions 5 & 3.
- Regions 5 & 10.

Hypothetically speaking, the opportunity for operators to bid for any combination of multiple regions could be a stepping stone or a test case towards merging regions together in the future and may not necessarily reflect the current combinations as published in the numerous contract tranches. If region merges were to take place then it would be a number of years before this would occur.

[stupid_girl]

Transport for NSW have indicated that Contract Two can be procured in a joint bid with Contract 15.

I suspect a joint bid may score better in terms of efficiency so a merged region is a real possibility.

[Fleet Lists]

Tranche 2 - I would rule out 5 & 3 as they are not adjoining - they are separated by 13 & 10.

For tranche 3 region 2 https://infrastructurepipeline.org/proj ... -contracts does say that "The contract will be procured in Tranche Three alongside Contract One and 15. Transport for NSW have indicated that Contract Two can be procured in a joint bid with Contract 15."

And for tranche 2 region 5 it says that: "The contract will be procured in Tranche Two alongside Contracts Three, Five and 13. Transport for NSW have indicated that all four contracts can be procured together in a joint bid."
But that would be a gigantic region which I just cannot see happening. But I suspect some smaller combinations as suggested by STU could be expected.

[Aurora]

One question is how far can CDC stretch themselves, are they happy with what they now have, or will they go for more?

[Fleet Lists]

They will probably go for more but I suspect the government may want to spread the regions over a number of operators so CDC may have reached their limit but we will have to wait and see.

[Glen]

One question is how far can CDC stretch themselves, are they happy with what they now have, or will they go for more?

The Sydney bids have all closed.

[Fleet Lists]

Yes that could then be reworded to
"One question is how far can CDC stretch themselves, are they happy with what they now have, or have they submitted for more?"

[Aurora]

Yes that could then be reworded to
"One question is how far can CDC stretch themselves, are they happy with what they now have, or have they submitted for more?"

You would think they would have tried, because they would not have known if they would be successful with the first tranche, provided everything was above board, but there is a lot of work that has to go in, particularly with the ever increasing areas of these contracts which make them more complicated by nature.