New Sydney and Outer Metro bus contracts (as from 2020)

[Fleet Lists]

Busways have always used consecutive numbers on buses as they are acquired.

Here is an old example of this but has not been maintained for a number of years now. https://fleetlists.busaustralia.com/buswaysfl.htm

I except they will continue this but time will tell. I am not sure of the people who are going to update the fleet lists already have this information or not.

[Linto63]

Apparently a couple of Y buses have now appeared with revised fleet numbers.

Do we yet know if all Y and M buses are being renumbered, or just those that duplicate existing fleet numbers elsewhere in the empire?

Can't be anything to do with duplications as the highest Busways numbered bus is 1450 (excluding Custom Denning Elements 5000-5005), while the lowest numbered former State Transit bus transferred to Busways is 1500.

[stajourneyman]

I did see a photo of a Y Volvo B7RLE with a number plate in the 2500 series that had been renumbered 3851.

Not sure where that fits in with their consecutive numbering.

I realise that they do have an operation in Adelaide, so that might have some bearing on things.

[Linto63]

Of the 20 or so region 7 buses I passed this morning, all retained existing fleet numbers, so if there is to be a renumbering by Busways, appears it will be staggered.

[gilberations]

Of the 20 or so region 7 buses I passed this morning, all retained existing fleet numbers, so if there is to be a renumbering by Busways, appears it will be staggered.

I dare say their priority was to change the company decals and operator licence display first, then change fleet numbers when they cycled through for servicing or something similar

[Fleet Lists]

Looking at their Adelaide fleet list which consists of 126 buses at only 1 depot - so not terribly big -with fleet numbers in the range 2210 to 2864, Grouped by chassis type with gaps in between the groups.
So possibly they have allocated the 3xxx range to Region 7 in a similar way. This is only guesswork - time will tell.

[BusPlaneTrainTram]

The Adelaide fleet numbers were inherited from Southlink; in the AdMet system for that southern region.

[Swift]

The Adelaide fleet numbers were inherited from Southlink; in the AdMet system for that southern region.

So Busways didn't alter them? There's a precedent.

[stajourneyman]

Have there been any other Y or M renumbering sightings this past week? Another two or three would probably solve the mystery.

Given that, according to the fleetlists, there are 159 buses at M and 2519 would be the 186 th bus at Y in fleet number order, the Busways renumbering would either start at 3506 at M or 3665 at Y.
Neither of these seem likely.

[Fleet Lists]

The Adelaide fleet numbers were inherited from Southlink; in the AdMet system for that southern region.

So Busways didn't alter them? There's a precedent.

This could be because the Adelaide fleet numbers are NOT allocated by the operators but are a Universal system allocated by Admet in which the operators have no say.

[Linto63]

Forgot about Busways Adelaide fleet in my earlier post suggesting there we no duplications, nationally there are a small number.

When Transit Systems took over region 6, many of the Mercedes-Benz O405HNs it inherited had the same fleet numbers as buses in its region 3 fleet, yet there were no renumberings. Perhaps Transit Systems use different IT systems at its two regions avoiding any duplication problems. That may be why the ex State Transit Volvo B12BLEs that Transit Systems inherited and renumbered when it took over region 3, were renumbered back to their original State Transit numbers when transferred to region 6.

[gilberations]

So Busways didn't alter them? There's a precedent.

This could be because the Adelaide fleet numbers are NOT allocated by the operators but are a Universal system allocated by Admet in which the operators have no say.

Honestly a more sensible system.

I feel like CDC and STA had the right idea with their fleet numbers matching the registration numbers

[stajourneyman]

I’m getting the impression it might just be a handful of M / Y buses that are getting renumbered.

Apparently a small batch in the 2500 series duplicate Busways fleet numbers in Adelaide, and as a consequence the STA ones have been renumbered into the 3800 series.

[Merc1107]

It's an issue that could be resolved with an internal numbering system that gives each depot a code, followed by the four digit fleet number. That means the fleets locally keep their numbering, but prevents duplication on the system that could cause issues with electronic maintenance or allocation systems.

[Linto63]

Potentially, but then buses have to renumbered every time there is a depot transfer. Far easier just to renumber the 13 buses (2211-2213, 2512-2519, 2749 and 2751) that are duplicated.

[Merc1107]

I'm sure it's very easily accomplished to renumber via a mouse click.

[Linto63]

Yes, but might need changes to IT system fields that can only accommodate numbers to allow for numbers and letters and them have to update over 1,000 records. Then every time a bus moves needs to be updated. Far easier to just renumber a handful of buses in one hit, then it is done.

[stajourneyman]

Comparing Busways three separate operations, it is remarkable how the fleet numbers have managed to fit between one another with very few

exceptions.

It seems that there are only eleven duplicated numbers in total.

These are 2512 - 2519 inclusive, and 2749 - 2751 inclusive.

The ex STA vehicles in question are Volvo B7RLE CB80s from Y and Scania K280 Bustechs from M.

So there may only be a handful of fleet number changes being made.

A couple of intriguing things at the moment ....firstly.. why did they pick such a random set of fleet numbers for these duplicates, given that there

were spaces available in the 2500 and 2700 ranges.

Secondly, .. a red Volgren bendy was sighted this week on Epping Rd with a fleet number of 3842.

[Fleet Lists]

Since I have not yet seen the full allocation by Busways of fleet numbers to ex STA buses, it is hard to comment.

But I know the duplications you list above are not made by Busways by choice. Their SA allocations are NOT their choice but they are ADmet fleet numbers over which Busways has no control and the others are ex STA numbers where we are still trying to work what is happening with fleet numbers.

If you have any more information on what is what with region 7 fleet mumbers please let us know. I dont know whether the people updating the fleet numbers have a list of new fleet numbers as allocated by Busways.

[Linto63]

A couple of intriguing things at the moment ....firstly.. why did they pick such a random set of fleet numbers for these duplicates, given that there were spaces available in the 2500 and 2700 ranges.

Probably because there is a chance buses from within this number range will be transferred into the Adelaide fleet in the future from SouthLink or Torrens Transit recreating the problem.

Secondly, .. a red Volgren bendy was sighted this week on Epping Rd with a fleet number of 3842.

There are actually 13 duplicates, Metrobus liveried Volgren bendies 2212 and 2213 being the other two, Most likely 3842 is one of these renumbered.

[Fleet Lists]

Yes 3842 is quite likely to be a renumber of 2212 or 2213. It would be nice if someone can confirm what the rego is of this bus as well as any others that are encountered with changed fleet numbers.

Also 3840 is the highest fleet umber coming across from the STA in the 3xxx series so 3841 could be the other one used as a renumber. However there are also numbers in the four thousands 4800-4805 and 4906. Busways may also have renumbered those into the 3 thousands to fit into their pattern.

[Swift]

Are there any pics of M or Y buses since the takeover without having to go to Meta land.

[stajourneyman]

Okay ...missed the duplication of 2212 and 2213.

I notice there is also a 2211 in both Adelaide and Sydney.

That being the case, and using the theory that Busways have simply carried the fleet numbers on after 3840 for duplicated numbers, things may go as

follows ...

2211 - 2213 (Red bendys) might become 3841 - 3843 ... this would align with the red bendy sighting as 3842.

2512 - 2519 (Volvo B7RLE CB80s) might become 3844 - 3851 ...this would align with the Busaustralia facebook page photo showing what looks like 2519
renumbered as 3851.

2749 / 2751 (Scania K280 Bustechs) might become 3852 - 3853.

[Linto63]

The 13 duplicates are 2211-2213, 2512-2519, 2749 and 2751. Perhaps rather than speculating on how we think they might be renumbered, we should stick to what they actually are renumbered. The fleet lists will be updated as and when the information becomes available.

[stajourneyman]

Mate ... there's no harm in speculation ..this board, after all, largely runs on speculation.

I'm sure there is ample evidence that even your good self may be guilty of such an offence ..