NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

[rogf24]

But if ScoMo keeps his promise, Geelong could be getting HSR (although more likely faux-HSR). Ballarat potentially too since DA announced Geelong and Ballarat as part of the same package,

[Swift]

^ is that because of flatter, less challenging topography than NSW?

[rogf24]

Melbourne to Geelong is completely flat and Melbourne to Ballarat is not as flat but still pretty flat compared to anything in Sydney and surrounds. Could be that the flat terrain makes it a lot easier to build fast trains and therefore more attractive to do.

[BroadGauge]

Melbourne to Ballarat is not as flat but still pretty flat compared to anything in Sydney and surrounds.

Not sure that I'd agree with that. The station at Bacchus Marsh is 109 metres above sea level, and the next station at Ballan (17 minutes away) has an elevation of 514 metres.

[neilrex]

Curves are a much bigger problem than gradients. High speed trains go up quite steep gradients with no trouble at all. They are very light.

[Swift]

Topography that allows gradual gradients without tunneling and bridges makes it a far more viable proposition.

[boronia]

Curves are a much bigger problem than gradients. High speed trains go up quite steep gradients with no trouble at all. They are very light.

It is not the performance of the trains that is in question. The G-force effect on passengers on steep gradients can be a problem.

[Swift]

I think I'd rather they admit it will never happen than continually give false hope over decades. It's cruel!

[Transtopic]

Far better, more affordable and deliverable sooner, is to just focus on Medium Speed Rail (160 - 200 km\h). It shouldn't be focused on competing with air travel over the longer distances, but providing faster and more frequent services between regional centres and their respective State capitals.

[Swift]

Far better, more affordable and deliverable sooner, is to just focus on Medium Speed Rail (160 - 200 km\h). It shouldn't be focused on competing with air travel over the longer distances, but providing faster and more frequent services between regional centres and their respective State capitals.

That is a recipe for long term mediocrity that will bite us in the bum!! With an inevitable continually rising population due to politics on immigration numbers, it's vital we make it attractive to live in regional areas in the very spread out nation of ours and HSR is the only option for that, with the distances we have to cover.
We better get cracking.

[Transtopic]

Far better, more affordable and deliverable sooner, is to just focus on Medium Speed Rail (160 - 200 km\h). It shouldn't be focused on competing with air travel over the longer distances, but providing faster and more frequent services between regional centres and their respective State capitals.

That is a recipe for long term mediocrity that will bite us in the bum!! With an inevitable continually rising population due to politics on immigration numbers, it's vital we make it attractive to live in regional areas in the very spread out nation of ours and HSR is the only option for that, with the distances we have to cover.
We better get cracking.

Sorry mate, you're delusional. I'm not saying that HSR should be ignored, but it's a longer term option. In the meantime, MSR should be the focus. I think it's a myth that HSR will encourage people to move to regional areas and commute to the CBD for work. The cost of commuting on a daily basis would be prohibitive and it's not as though fares can justifiably be subsidised.

[neilrex]

" it's vital we make it attractive to live in regional areas in the very spread out nation of ours and HSR is the only option for that, "

The first part of that statement is possibly true, the second part is nonsense.

The idea that out cities are so full, that people should be commuting 200 km each way to work, is nonsense.

Other countries manage to have lots of decent middle-sized cities to live in, and Australia does not. Nobody in Australia wants to leave the big cities, and the main reason is jobs, and opportunities for their children. This is partly an attitude thing: "If you're not in Sydney, you're camping" Paul Keating.

Transportation infrastructure is only a tiny part of this problem. Poor quality schools, universities, hospitals and industry are a bigger problem.

[Swift]

,^ transport within Sydney and too many nature reserves are other issues.
We can't keep bringing in immigrants at the current rate if everyone wants to live in Syd-bourne. Something has to give while we have both parties insisting on a high newcomer intake.

[Transtopic]

,^ transport within Sydney and too many nature reserves are other issues.
We can't keep bringing in immigrants at the current rate if everyone wants to live in Syd-bourne. Something has to give while we have both parties insisting on a high newcomer intake.

The reality is that our immigration intake isn't going to change significantly. At best, it might plateau. New immigrants want to live in the major cities, where there are more job opportunities. A strategy of forcing some to live in regional areas is flawed, as some will move back into the major cities at the first opportunity. Many new immigrants come from highly urbanised areas and they would prefer to live in a similar environment.

That doesn't mean to say that there shouldn't be an ongoing campaign to encourage people to move to the larger regional centres, in the NSW context, such as Newcastle, Wollongong, Albury, Wagga, Bathurst, Orange, Dubbo, Tamworth, Port Macquarie, Coffs Harbour or Lismore amongst others, where the critical mass of population reaches 50,000 or more. It shouldn't be forced on them. At the end of the day, it's all about local job opportunities. Without that, there's no incentive to move, notwithstanding a more relaxed and comfortable lifestyle. These are the areas where the focus should be on upgrading rail services connecting with the State Capitals, not long distance Interstate rail travel, although that would also benefit with shorter travel times than is currently available..

The challenge for both Federal and State governments is to provide the infrastructure to accommodate the increasing populations in our major cities, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne. I acknowledge that's easier said than done, but nonetheless, it's something which has to be addressed. I don't see immigration being significantly reduced, particularly with our ageing population.

[Campbelltown busboy]

Didn't the newly elected NSW labor government trail a X2000 high speed tilt train that was loaned from Sweden about 25 years ago

[BroadGauge]

Didn't the newly elected NSW labor government trail a X2000 high speed tilt train that was loaned from Sweden about 25 years ago

Not quite.

https://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/ ... or-orange/

IN 1995 the then NSW transport minister did a trip on a Swedish tilt train, liked what he saw and arranged to bring three carriages here for a four-month trial just before a State election.

But there’s a twist to all this.

Bruce Baird was the transport minister who brought the tilt train to NSW for the trials, a move designed to help the Liberal government win the 1995 election but it was lost to Labor.

[boronia]

I see that our Gladys is in Germany now looking at HSR, and having a ride in the ICE.

Talking up with 60 min trips to Canberra, 45 to Newcastle and 30 mins to Wollongong.

[boronia]

^^^
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/hig ... 52hla.html

[Transtopic]

^^^
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/hig ... 52hla.html

She hasn't got a clue. She's too obsessed with privatisation as being the magic bullet. No private organisation would touch it without government subsidy. She has to face up to the reality that public transport, whether in the urban context or fast regional travel, will ultimately fall upon the responsibility of the government.

[Swift]

She and her cohorts in the Liberal party think private enterprise can just build and run these hundreds of kilometre railways while turning a handsome profit -just like that, when that is what is required in order to attract them there. Does she think SNCF in France are some publicly listed company passing great dividends to shareholders or the government run entity it is, running the world leading TGV for over three decades?
Don't try telling me ICE has no tax payer backing my dear.
Such deluded accountability averse ideologues they are.

[Linto63]

fast train manufacturer Deutsche Bahn

Some quality copyediting there from the SMH, Deutsche Bahn is actually a train operator, probably manufactured its own trains back in the day much like the NSWGR did, but the current ICE trains in Germany were built by Siemens.

Ms Berejiklian indicated faster rail would be built in NSW by the private sector

Of course they would be built by the private sector, all construction is done by the private sector. But to think the private sector is going to finance it and bear the risk is fanciful.

This is an example of where the private sector has invested quite a bit of their money and they are making profits

Um Gladys, Deutsche Bahn is actually a 100% German government owned subsidiary, and while the ICE segment may be profitable, it does have net debts of over 20 billion euros. https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-arriv ... KKCN1TC1O9 The private sector investment appears to be through the issuing of bonds which have a guaranteed return, so unless the government goes bust, then there is no risk to the private sector investors. https://ir.deutschebahn.com/en/bonds-an ... nds/bonds/

Then there is the cost. In the UK construction is about to commence on the 200 kilometre High Speed 2 line from London to Birmingham, although the incoming prime minister is against it, so a review is being conducted that may yet see it shelved. It is budgeted to cost £27 billion, and there are suggestions that it may actually be a fair bit more than that, which works out at £130 million per kilometre, or $230 million. And that section of England is relatively flat, Birmingham only being 150 metres above sea level, a lot easier terrain than that surrounding Sydney. While a straight conversion of the GBP costs into AUD is a bit simplistic and unlikely to be entirely accurate, it does indicate it would be phenomenally expensive.

[tonyp]

I'd like to see the official sights being kept firmly focussed on medium-speed rail. That's going to achieve a lot more for us in practical terms. Germany and UK have huge populations to support and justify high-speed rail projects. I would see privatisation is meaning build and operate. The finance and asset ownership are going to be government. If she can negotiate something more, good luck to her, but I think what I wrote will be the practical outcome in the end.

[Swift]

We all know the tired old tale. Taxpayer funded jaunt to learn SFA and apply it here.

[tonyp]

https://www.facebook.com/7NEWSsydney/vi ... 423064515/

My answer to the Premier's question is: Sydney to Nowra

[BroadGauge]

I'd like to see the official sights being kept firmly focussed on medium-speed rail. That's going to achieve a lot more for us in practical terms.

I'd be happy if the Southern Highlands line simply took the same amount of time as driving does!