NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Linto63
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by Linto63 »

Not surprising, the fast rail program has been descoped, i.e. cancelled.

Budget 2023/24 Infrastructure Statement
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by Swift »

As sure as sunrise it'll be back with precisely zero intention to get it of the ground.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

ScaniaGrenda wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:09 am People seem quick to forget this is ALWAYS, ALWAYS some election promise, all the hype and fanfair with the whole "elect us and we'll deliver the High Speed rail the state deserves". Then said party wins but not on that promise alone and that's exactly it, the hype dies down from there and is swept under the rug until the next election where it is hyped up again.

I've said it so many times on this thread previously before I am sure, yet am ignored when I state the obvious (that'll it will never happen) and the discussion just continues on that this will happen surely. No it simply won't, just bury this whole high speed rail idea please & move on. Express (XPT equivalent or on par) trains is about as close as we're going to get to HSR and that's miles off from what a HSR is suppose to be by definition.

I don't have any expertise in the matter of how it would be pulled off, I just know that after the 30 millionth time that it's been announced and still hasn't gotten boots & tools on the ground it's just too good to be true, anyone waiting for this to happen should know it simply won't, stop waiting for it.
Wow

so almost a year has past since when I said this and would you believe it, the NSW HSR has been put back to rest (also known as too hard basket). Now, the anticipation is building for its grand return during the next Federal election. It's feeling like a recurring blockbuster movie sequel at this point – people flock to it with anticipation, only to be treated to the same old sequel syndrome: 'hype, hope, and yet another dose of disappointment.

Just reiterating my stance from nearly a year ago, I recommend just shelving the High-Speed Rail (HSR) proposal entirely. It seems evident that its resurgence is driven more by political motivations & brownie points than a sincere desire to implement a beneficial initiative, If it was anything else I'm sure it would have been constructed some time ago.

Just my humble opinion although I don't anticipate my viewpoint will carry much weight, given that it's consistently been brushed aside when I've rightly pointed out that this is an unfeasible proposition.

See you back in here next election I suppose.
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boronia
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by boronia »

There is a difference between "Fast Rail" and "High Speed Rail".

What happens to all the money that the Feds were going to throw at the Wyong quad project, which might have given a five minute benefit to the line?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by Swift »

If only the media would ignore it, but they keep reporting on it and helping the would be government to push it's misleading barrow and the ever hopeful electorate lap up the false hope.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Post by Linto63 »

Tuggerah - Wyong upgrade has had its federal funding pulled.

Infrastructure projects across Australia that have had their funding axed (SBS)
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Swift »

No! Surely not (knock me down with a feather and that).
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Swift wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:27 pm No! Surely not (knock me down with a feather and that).
the feds are really pushing this Sydney-Newcastle fast/high speed rail idea and train station car park upgrades isn't fast rail
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Transtopic »

It was all a big lie from the very beginning anyway. It had nothing to do with High Speed Rail and was merely a couple of glorified passing loops. True HSR would be on a completely different alignment, not that I think it would ever be feasible. If they were talking about Faster Rail, that's a completely different matter. The NSW government has even now backed away from that. The best we could hope for is incremental upgrades to improve existing journey times.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Swift »

Maybe get it back to the 38 class steam hauled Newcastle Flyer timings. I doubt they will even accomplish that.
We need realistic rail but that's predicated on the government to stop jerking us off with fantasy proposals they have no intention of getting off the ground.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by verbatim9 »

I found the previous fast rail authority would have provided better outcomes on the East Coast. We could have gotten more electrification as well as line straightening and tunneling to speed up travel times.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

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Swift wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:09 am Maybe get it back to the 38 class steam hauled Newcastle Flyer timings. I doubt they will even accomplish that.
We need realistic rail but that's predicated on the government to stop jerking us off with fantasy proposals they have no intention of getting off the ground.
THey could if they ran trains that didn't stop at every platform between Berowra and Newcastle. What was once "Inter-City Expresses" are meandering commuter services for an ever expanding residential belt.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Swift »

Reinstate the old alignment beyond waterfall and if they won't duplicate the tunnels, run a single line though it and use it when possible for express trains and get goods trains to use the winding alignment only. The tunnelling is already done, one of which is a long as Woy Woy tunnel.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by captainch »

SORRY to say the only hi speed rail you will see between SYDNEY/CENTRAL COAST&NEWCASTLE will be the many cancelled trains replaced by buses trying to catch up to the timetable by missing stations also its good to see a lot of buses on train replacements have come from museums and scrapp dealers there SO OLD what ever happened to buses being a certin age ect and a'c buses being used on intercity bus eplacements is it any wonder EVERY day on the M1 acidents after accidents as people are driving rather than use public transport! A friend of mine going to a last minute medical appointment had to wait 2 half hours for wheelchair bus they offered a taxi but it was to large for a taxi train was the only way. OR AMBULANCE this presant transport minister is HOPELESS only to be seen in the media with more hopeless promises.WOY WOY has lost its new comuter car park you have to park there 11p.m the night before any wonder central coast residents take there car to sydney if you don't mind crashes & trucks on fire or running into each other evey day !
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Transtopic »

Another mediocre attempt to justify this flawed project. It's never going to be justified, considering the distances and population density, not to mention the cost, along the route. Do I detect a shift in focusing on faster regional rail links, which may not be HSR in the accepted terminology, which I would support? The mooted Central Coast upgrades between Sydney and Newcastle, which the government spruces as the first stage of a high speed line, is nothing more than passing loops on the existing line. True HSR would require a completely different and segregated alignment.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5exms.html
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Let's be realistic here, we knew this was always too good to begin with, Anyone getting any form of hope up was really only setting themselves up from disappointment from day one. This has always been nothing more than a wishy washy election stunt, time and time again. Fortunately for ourselves we're either enthuistists or work in the sector so it's really easy to keep track of failure after failure to pull this off and keep expectations low, the general public not well versed that this is a stunt always gets taken for a ride come election time because they believe this new leadership is going to finally pull it off, boots in the ground.

This project should just be put to rest, and instead resources and effort put into improving regional NSW Trainlink services and infrastructure seeing as how presently very little attention is being focused on that (Not counting the XPT / Xplorer replacements).
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by matthewg »

Anything that affects the profits of the Sydney and Melbourne airport operators and the airlines that fly between them will never get up. Even if it got even a little way you can bet the airlines will be demanding 'compensation' for the loss of the busy east coast routes and ongoing subsidy for the remaining air routes that 'can no longer be supported by Sydney-Melbourne profits'.
Sydney-Melbourne has an insane level of air service between them. Forget the total population, etc, the sheer number of people in Sydney who want to be in Melbourne and Melbourne people who want to be in Sydney up there near the top of popular city-pairs. There might not be many of us by world standards, but boy, we want to be somewhere other than where we are all the time.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Swift »

I'm super tired of Aussie business that feel entitled to have market share funnelled to themselves. That's more the reason to build HSR Syd to Mel not less. The demand exists. Jet travel is very polluting and doesn't allow for intermediate stops. Leave plane travel to those that absolutely have to be their ASAP which is plenty. HSR will allow more decentralisation of the population and will relieve the housing stress going on at the moment. Neither party are not going to stop migration intake and rail projects like metro in the cities is not going to keep up for long. We need this now. Many folks wish they could leave the big ever crowding cities if transport links were greatly improved. I guarantee a HSR would be an absolute game changer but we have the big hurdle called the Aussie pollie.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Glen »

I wonder if the fares would be as expensive as in the UK.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Transtopic »

Glen wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:04 pm I wonder if the fares would be as expensive as in the UK.
That's something that the HSR protagonists conveniently ignore. If it ever does eventuate, they won't be charging the same fares applicable today to regional rail travel. It will be a premium fare, which is unlikely to recover operating costs let alone capital costs, and will have to be heavily subsidised by the government. I doubt if it would be competitive with air fares. Upgrading to Medium Speed Rail Standard would be much more manageable.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by tonyp »

Glen wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:04 pm I wonder if the fares would be as expensive as in the UK.
They can take a leaf out of Neville Wran's book and charge first class for whole train when it's supposed to be a replacement for the regular train.

We should set our sights on achievable medium speed rail in Australia. The aviation industry does a good job on the long haul travel and major cities are slowly getting their act together on airport rail links, overcoming the accessibility disadvantage that airports have traditionally had.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Swift »

Glen wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:04 pm I wonder if the fares would be as expensive as in the UK.
It'll keep the human ditritus off them. Let's make train travel classy again.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

Post by Merc1107 »

Swift wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:30 pmI'm super tired of Aussie business that feel entitled to have market share funnelled to themselves. That's more the reason to build HSR Syd to Mel not less. The demand exists. Jet travel is very polluting and doesn't allow for intermediate stops. Leave plane travel to those that absolutely have to be their ASAP which is plenty. HSR will allow more decentralisation of the population and will relieve the housing stress going on at the moment.
Rail probably cannot be competitive with air travel in Australia in terms of journey time. It can, perhaps, be improved to be at least as quick, if not quicker than driving so people in the regions can viably utilise the service for travel between major centres or even to the nearby city for a cost that is not entirely ridiculous.

With the environmental impact of flying, the location of airports leading to growing hostility towards extra runways and more services, the cost of flying is probably going to increase a lot as demand increases, yet supply remains somewhat stagnant (the A380 was meant to be the big fix for slot-restricted "hub" airports ... and look how well that turned out). There needs to be a viable alternative for the rest of us who have grown tired of the hassle of flying and find it nerve-wracking.
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