Sydney Metro West announced

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
grog
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by grog »

I tend to agree, but then I also wonder what Anzac Bridge will be like for buses after WestConnex opens and sends more cars that way. The more congested Anzac Bridge gets, the more sense it might make to divert and/or terminate Victoria Road services for a quicker journey. Of course the answer might be different during peak and off peak, which is not good from a network simplicity perspective.
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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^^^^^ Again, nobody is suggesting that passsengers should be "forced" (Transtopic) to transfer to Metro, or to "divert and/or terminate" (grog) bus services. Many inbound Victoria Road passengers will always want to go to the CBD, but when we have two major transit corridors intersecting as they do here, for the next 50 to 100 years, it would have made sense to facilitate transfers, especially when spending $16 B. on the roadworks and another $? B. on the Metro.
But I fear it's too late, and yet again,Transport for NSW will not be held accountable.

(Given so many project costs are now expressed in Billions, this clip from the Herald letters on 27.9.22 gives some perspective...."One million seconds is 12 days; one billion seconds is 31 years".)
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jpp42
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by jpp42 »

Regarding the bus transfer options, or lack thereof, from the Bays stop, I think it's worth noting that the 5xx series buses drop off and pick up in the CBD at Park St, whereas the Metro serves Hunter St. These are 500m+ apart which is not an issue for some commuters, but being able to catch a Metro to an easy bus transfer could result in much less walking for Victoria road users working in the north end of the CBD. Yes, I know that the light rail also exists in the CBD and can collect passengers from the 5xx buses, but more options are always better. Not everyone can walk long distances and easy transfers are super helpful for these people.
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boronia
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by boronia »

Perhaps the majority of bus passengers heading into the CBD would not be happy about their trip being lengthened by a slow deviation through Rozelle for a small number of people to transfer?
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lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

WHITE BAY
A "slow deviation through Rozelle" (^^^^^) is neither suggested nor necessary. The motorway ramps, currently being constructed and/or reconfigured, are just a walkable 150m from the Bays Metro station. Sadly, there's no recognition or discussion of that in the publicly available planning statements.
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Aurora
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Aurora »

I can’t disagree with the proponents here for easier interchange at that stop. Our state loves to not get it right the first time, later having to spend more money to “upgrade”.
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tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

Aurora wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:26 pm I can’t disagree with the proponents here for easier interchange at that stop. Our state loves to not get it right the first time, later having to spend more money to “upgrade”.
The planning profession in general is very poor on pedestrian links, has been for years and little sign of changing. If it enters their thinking at all, it's as an afterthought.
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jpp42
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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tonyp wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:39 pm The planning profession in general is very poor on pedestrian links, has been for years and little sign of changing. If it enters their thinking at all, it's as an afterthought.
Getting slightly off-topic here, but not entirely, I just went through the REF for "Western Distributor Improvements" which is a small package of works in Pyrmont to reduce delays on the WD, including an extra ramp from Fig/Harris intersection to the WD to improve connectivity towards the Harbour Bridge. Part of the project is an extra traffic lane in Allen St (where there's an exit from the WD eastbound) and more turning lanes, for which they plan to remove a pedestrian crossing at Miller & Harris (south side). It frustrated me that the document makes no mention whatsoever of the impact on pedestrians. There are definitely impacts, such as increase to journey times by being forced to wait for three other crossings, the likelihood that some pedestrians will "jaywalk" anyway at danger to themselves and other road users, etc. Yet there is a huge chapter on the impact of removing 8 street parking spots (including multiple-day survey of parking such etc) - yet it seems no surveys of pedestrian usage of the crossing were contemplated.

The only acknowledgement in the whole report that it might be a good idea to improve pedestrian amenity was a throwaway line about the Metro West station that's being planned for Pyrmont (which isn't that close to this project area anyway).
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gilberations
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by gilberations »

I’d like to remind people that any bus network change plans will change 15 times between now and when it happens
Glen
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by Glen »

tonyp wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:39 pm
Aurora wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:26 pm I can’t disagree with the proponents here for easier interchange at that stop. Our state loves to not get it right the first time, later having to spend more money to “upgrade”.
The planning profession in general is very poor on pedestrian links, has been for years and little sign of changing. If it enters their thinking at all, it's as an afterthought.
I remember when Menai Marketplace was being built, the thought that people living south of Menai Road might actually walk to their new local shopping centre had never entered the planners minds.

The planners drive, doesn't everybody else?

The pedestrian bridge subsequently built was certainly an afterthought.
tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

Glen wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:18 am I remember when Menai Marketplace was being built, the thought that people living south of Menai Road might actually walk to their new local shopping centre had never entered the planners minds.

The planners drive, doesn't everybody else?

The pedestrian bridge subsequently built was certainly an afterthought.
That's a tadpole compared to the kilometers of planning folly in the NW when the previous government built a major transit corridor (busway), then allowed all the adjacent housing to be fenced off from it, so that that nobody could walk to their stop/station. The subsequent metro project has opened up some more accessways, but great swathes of suburbs have no convenient walking access to the metro. Opening up an access typically involves buying and demolishing a residence, then creating an accessible path, a project that runs into at least a couple of million dollars. The suburbs affected are those closest to the stations, where the feeder buses often don't serve because some other planner has determined that they're too close to the station to need a bus. Then there's the creeks and lack of bridges. It's mind-bending idiocy. Have they learned lessons for new metro lines? Let's see.

I see what you mean about Menai. Same syndrome, no pedestrian crossings of Menai Rd (similar to NW), but at least better estate planning with internal pathways that assisted that footbridge to come about. NW has a lot of cul de sacs with no paths between them.

When I was in Norwest hospital a few years back, I looked out onto the Berlin Wall of back fences of the suburb of Bella Vista, isolating it from, not only the busway, but the shopping centre next to the hospital. Right opposite my window was a chain-wire fence that was part of the "Wall" and the locals had cut a hole through it so that they could duck over to the shops without a long, circuitous drive via Windsor Rd. The residents will lose in the end because the land between that fence and the shopping centre will be developed and, doubtless, nobody will think the leave an easement for a path. The universities should be taking their planning students and dumping them on foot in these suburbs and telling them to make it to the station. And keep doing that.
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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If you were to do a survey of chain-wire "manproof" fences around Sydney, you'd find many of them, perhaps even a majority, have discrete man-made holes. It's not so easy with the newer steel-bar "pallisade" fences....
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jpp42
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by jpp42 »

A little late, but worth a read if you didn't see this feature on both metro lines under constructions. Properties acquired for the Metro West are starting to close in advance of demolition, such as the Hunter Connection food courts.

From the SMH:
A super rail hub will be created under the heart of Sydney’s CBD by the end of the decade when more than 100 passenger trains an hour will pass through sprawling underground stations beneath Martin Place.

The sheer number of trains underscores the scale of an underground station at Martin Place, which will be opened next year as part of the $18.5 billion Metro City and Southwest line, followed six years later by a giant station under nearby Hunter Street for the $27 billion Metro West line from the CBD to Parramatta. The two will be connected by pedestrian tunnels.
Full story: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the ... 5c7og.html
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

METRO WEST STAGE 2 - THE BAYS TO SYDNEY CBD - PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS

An application has been made to modify an existing approval for this State Significant Infrastructure (SSI). If approved, the amendment to Condition D23 will permit tunneling activities by other than tunnel boring machines outside the approved construction hours.
Documentation is on the Department of Planning website.
Comment closes 15 February 2023.
(Ref. SMH ad. 1.2.23)
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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"THE BAYS" STATION - INTERCHANGE WITH VICTORIA ROAD BUSES - UPDATE

This topic has previously been discussed, on page 16 of this thread. Irritated by the Department of Planning's failure to acknowledge my submissions on this topic in its reports, I had my MP seek some commitment from the Transport Minister, specifically mentioning the 1200-a-day Victoria Road trunk bus services, dated 22/12/22. He has received a response from Mark Taylor MP, Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure and Cities, Transport and Roads dated 3/2/23.

Taylor's 7-paragraph response completely avoids the issue. The nearest he gets is "Specific arrangements for bus service lines (sic) and integration will be made by Transport for NSW and the relevant operators closer to the time of operation of the metro line".

The $16B Rozelle underground road junction and the $~25B Metro West are just 50 to 100 metres apart, but it appears public transport "transferers" are in for a much longer walk......
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lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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The covers have come off the 4 tunnel boring machines stored at White Bay. We can now see the internal workings of the TBMs from the Anzac Bridge western ramp.
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

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"The Bays" metro station.....

The latest information from Sydney Metro (caportal.com.au/tfnsw/sydmetrowest/map) shows The Bays station below the north-east corner of the White Bay Power Station. That might make CONVENIENT transfers to and from the Victoria Road buses ( ~ 200m) PRACTICABLE.

Scissors X-overs are also mentioned for Pyrmont, Burwood North, Clyde and Westmead, but the X-overs are not shown on the track diagram. The Pyrmont X-over is now west of that station, having been moved from the earlier proposed location east of The Bays station (Modification Request (Mod1)). The new location has the advantage of better pedestrian accessibility in cases of emergency, and is well removed from the foundations of the Anzac Bridge.
Public comment on the latest plans closes tomorrow, Wdnesday 15 February 2023.
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moa999
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by moa999 »

See the Bays West Master Plan.
Pedestrian and cycleway connections provided through the precinct to the station from upgraded stops on Victoria Rd.

Image
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

^^^^^^^Note the photo caption, specifically mentioning "surrounding communities". There is no SPECIFIC consideration for people transferring to and from the 1200-a-day buses on Victoria Road, 200m away.
tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

That map certainly visually invites diversion of all Victoria Rd buses past the metro station and, if so, can a way be found to get two slip ramps up to the Glebe Island bridge so that buses don't have to loop back to Victoria Rd to get out of the station? Alternatively, if it's not planned to divert the buses, would a couple of ramps to the bridge help change the decision?
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alleve
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by alleve »

lunchbox wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:39 pm ^^^^^^^Note the photo caption, specifically mentioning "surrounding communities". There is no SPECIFIC consideration for people transferring to and from the 1200-a-day buses on Victoria Road, 200m away.
I wouldn't hang off the vague words "surrounding communities" to make any sort of judgement about which buses will and won't be moved to interchange with the station. The photo suggests the 433 would be diverted to serve the station
PG1
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by PG1 »

Whilst the photo suggests the 433, two other options are currently also available:
441 Art Gallery to Birchgrove via QVB - travels along Robert St
442 QVB to Balmain East Wharf - travels along Robert St
moa999
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by moa999 »

I suspect some/all Balmain/ Birchgrove (441/442) buses will be diverted to serve The Bays, as might a few on Victoria Rd (50x) rather than serving the city.

Other Victoria Rd (50x) buses might turnoff at Drummoyne down Lyons Rd to Five Dock.

But for the others, if you want to transfer it will seemingly be a short walk and I suspect escalator down from the Victoria Rd stops.
Remember there is a whole pedestrian connection running from the Bays Precinct to above the Rozelle Interchange and across to Rozelle Bay LR.

As above, many coming on a bus down Victoria Rd, particularly those working on the Western side of the city will find it quicker to stay on the bus, and wouldn't want a diversion that would slow down their journey.




tonyp
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by tonyp »

I note also that much of Balmain and Rozelle are within the 1 km radius that's regarded as the traditional rail station walking distance measure, so I hope the pedestrian links are going to be good and direct.
lunchbox
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Re: Sydney Metro West announced

Post by lunchbox »

THE BAYS....
A rather permanent-looking concrete stair has been erected at the mooted inbound Victoria Road bus stop, roughly on the site of the former White Bay Hotel. It will be interesting to see how northbound passengers will be able to access the stop on the other side of the busy road.
Two of the TBMs have been moved closer to the launch site / shed.
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