Sydney Metro West announced

[tonyp]

Considering that this is going to transform Burwood into a significant small city located halfway between Sydney and Parramatta (and bearing in mind that there's already a fair bit of this type of development around Burwood Station), it reinforces the case for all trains to stop at Burwood.

Burwood is one of those centres that suffer from the two-tier suburban service where semi-expresses bypass it. This is now a complete anachronism from the days when Burwood was just another suburb.

[Linto63]

With 12 trains per hour in each direction in the off peak, not exactly starved of services.

[tonyp]

With 12 trains per hour in each direction in the off peak, not exactly starved of services.

But given that, unlike the metro, suburban services become very slow if they have to stop regularly, doesn't that unfairly deprive Burwood users of a quick trip to Sydney or Parramatta?

This is one of the issues that help understand why the metro is a superior system. Inevitably, if significant train services continue to bypass Burwood, the development centre of gravity in Burwood will be dragged inexorably north to be closer to the train service that delivers more. Better service is needed at Burwood Station to keep development balanced along the axis and get the most benefit from being blessed with two train stations in this future city.

[Aurora]

Burwood have a mix of express, limited stops and all stops services, plenty of trains. Why add already crowded western line services in the peak hour which were removed from such mid-tier locations like Burwood, Rockdale and Granville in the first place. Strathfield is one minute away for any Intercity connections.

[tonyp]

https://www.sydneymetro.info/article/sy ... -takes-off

[tonyp]

Burwood have a mix of express, limited stops and all stops services, plenty of trains. Why add already crowded western line services in the peak hour which were removed from such mid-tier locations like Burwood, Rockdale and Granville in the first place. Strathfield is one minute away for any Intercity connections.

It would be good though to have services of the same quality at both ends of the axis. While frequency will be similar, it will take twice as long to reach Parramatta and northern Sydney CBD on the suburban as it will on the metro. The suburban will have an advantage reaching Central, until such time as the metro is extended to Central and SE.

When the metro is open, it seems to me that it will be good to have a two-way circulator bus connecting the three stations. Via Burwood Road, Burton Street, Broughton Street, GW Highway, Mosely Street, Everton Road, Raw Square, Albert Road, The Boulevarde, Morwick Street, Railway Parade, back into Burwood Road.

[Linto63]

But given that, unlike the metro, suburban services become very slow if they have to stop regularly, doesn't that unfairly deprive Burwood users of a quick trip to Sydney or Parramatta?

Of the 12 trips per hour four are first stop Redfern, four are Ashfield, Newtown then Redfern and four are all shacks. That is equal, and arguably better, than comparable centres like Bondi Junction, Chatswood, Hurstville and Parramatta receive. Going to Parramatta it is a same platform change at Strathfield for either an express (Richmond) or one stop (Penrith) service.

This is one of the issues that help understand why the metro is a superior system.

We have been over the reasons a metro line will outperform a legacy line a thousand times before, no need to revisit.

Inevitably, if significant train services continue to bypass Burwood, the development centre of gravity in Burwood will be dragged inexorably north to be closer to the train service that delivers more.

The main source of inbound traffic is the retail district and more specifically its two shopping centres. While the metro station will take patronage away from the railway station, the latter will remain busy, Westfield isn't going to up sticks and move half a kilometre up the road because it is marginally quicker to get there from the CBD.

Why add already crowded western line services in the peak hour which were removed from such mid-tier locations like Burwood, Rockdale and Granville in the first place.

Exactly that's why express and semi-express services ceased calling or were reduced at these stations in the 2017 timetable recast. Redfern and Strathfield were others that lost services.

When the metro is open, it seems to me that it will be good to have a two-way circulator bus connecting the three stations.

Not really necessary, the two Burwood stations will be connected by multiple regular bus services, 410, 415, 461X, 464, 530 etc, As to people wanting to transfer to the metro from Strathfield, they will do so at Parramatta, North Strathfield or Wynyard.

[Transtopic]

But given that, unlike the metro, suburban services become very slow if they have to stop regularly, doesn't that unfairly deprive Burwood users of a quick trip to Sydney or Parramatta?

Of the 12 trips per hour four are first stop Redfern, four are Ashfield, Newtown then Redfern and four are all shacks. That is equal, and arguably better, than comparable centres like Bondi Junction, Chatswood, Hurstville and Parramatta receive. Going to Parramatta it is a same platform change at Strathfield for either an express (Richmond) or one stop (Penrith) service.

From what I can see, the current fastest express journey time for ST from Burwood to Central, with one stop at Redfern, is 11 minutes, and that's with the slowed down timetable. It's 17 minutes to Wynyard. I don't know what the proposed journey time for Metro West from North Burwood to Hunter St is, but at a guess, it would be around 10 minutes.

The service you choose will very much depend on your origin and destination. If you're travelling to the Northern CBD and your origin is closer to North Burwood, then MW would obviously be faster. However, to get to Central or Town Hall on MW which are the busier destinations, it would involve a long walk to Wynyard or Martin Place to interchange to ST or MNW, which would add another 5 to 10 minutes to your journey, whereas you could have a direct journey from Burwood on the ST line. Even assuming that MW is eventually extended to Central and the south-east at some future date, there would be at least one more intermediate station between Hunter St and Central, which is going to add another 5 minutes for the journey time to Central.

In his usual form, tonyp makes invalid comparisons with the existing ST timetable, without acknowledging the improvements which will be made with the proposed upgrades. At the end of the day, what rational person is going to calculate alternative journey times down to the last minute, when the overriding consideration would be what's the most convenient?

[Merc1107]

In his usual form, tonyp makes invalid comparisons with the existing ST timetable, without acknowledging the improvements which will be made with the proposed upgrades. At the end of the day, what rational person is going to calculate alternative journey times down to the last minute, when the overriding consideration would be what's the most convenient?

Few would do that manually - most will rely on something like Google Maps, which will inevitably route you according to how you stipulate - less walking, less connections, faster journey etc. By default it will send you via the shortest route unless you manually override the options (and many people aren't even tech-savvy enough to do that). Occasionally they manage to send you on a needless wild goose chase, but that's another matter entirely. If people see there's a couple of minutes to be saved going one way over another, it's quite possible they'll choose that journey - I mean people will take all sorts of bizarre rat-run routes in their car to save (what they perceive to be) "a lot of time", when in actual fact, they're not saving any time at all.

[Transtopic]

For the information of users.

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/ladoc ... 202024.pdf

[tonyp]

Project update, February 2024.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/media/document/39296

[Transtopic]

Project update, February 2024.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/media/document/39296

Sounds like a defensive response. Still more announcements to come by the government, including its response to the LA Inquiry.

[tonyp]

Sounds more like a routine project overview and update to me.

[Transtopic]

Sounds more like a routine project overview and update to me.

Strange coincidence though, a couple of days after the Inquiry report was tabled in Parliament.

The Inquiry report basically supports continuation of the project, but questions the previous focus on a 20 minute journey time which is a contributing factor in limiting the number of stations, particularly between Parramatta and SOP. Although it also canvassed a possible station between Five Dock and The Bays, it doesn't look like that's going to happen. The fact that the Inquiry wasn't able to get access to the original business case is concerning, as that was one of the Terms of Reference. That is still to be played out. The government's response to the Inquiry report is due by 06/08/24.

[Frances]

I find it strange that Lilyfield and Rozelle are not considered worthy of a Metro station. Do they think that the existing light rail and buses are sufficient?

Also, although there isn't anything much in the way of housing in the area on the west of Duck River, what's the chance that there will be in years to come. Thirty years ago no one would have thought there would be all the housing at Sydney Olympic Park - the suburb didn't even exist! Maybe don't build the station there yet, but have the earthworks (or whatever the right terminology is) in place, so that a station can easily be built when it is needed.

[flitter]

Bays Precinct station will cover those really well.

[boronia]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ins ... 5fbuz.html