Olympic Park Nightride service

[Geo101]

I was wondering the reason why there is no Nightride service to Olympic Park.

Admittedly it's just under $20 for a cab fare to Lidcombe to connect to the N50/60/61 services (or Strathfield to connect to N50/60/61/70/71/80 services), but would it be possible to re-route the N61 Carlingford service via Olympic Park, say from Clyde-Olympic Park-Strathfield?

The stations between Clyde and Strathfield (Auburn, Lidcombe, Flemmington & Homebush) are also serviced by the N60 route.

Has there ever been any studies into this?

[swtt]

I was wondering the reason why there is no Nightride service to Olympic Park.

Admittedly it's just under $20 for a cab fare to Lidcombe to connect to the N50/60/61 services (or Strathfield to connect to N50/60/61/70/71/80 services), but would it be possible to re-route the N61 Carlingford service via Olympic Park, say from Clyde-Olympic Park-Strathfield?

The stations between Clyde and Strathfield (Auburn, Lidcombe, Flemmington & Homebush) are also serviced by the N60 route.

Has there ever been any studies into this?

There will need to be one sooner or later with heaps of apartments coming up!

Admittedly the 526 now runs a lot later through to Rhodes to capture the passengers from the last train from Central (ex Central around 11.54 pm). It does take passengers all the way to SOP and Burwood.

[Geo101]

There will need to be one sooner or later with heaps of apartments coming up!

The issue I'm across is the staff who work in the vicinity at events, etc. They quite often start early and finish late.

Admittedly the 526 now runs a lot later through to Rhodes to capture the passengers from the last train from Central (ex Central around 11.54 pm). It does take passengers all the way to SOP and Burwood.

I've put together this list which I think is correct regarding bus train times. I wasn't aware of the last buses @ 00:53 to Strathfield, but this is still too early to be of any use for cleaners, event personnel, security, etc who work late after shows.

SOP to Strathfield Bus
First Last
06:14 00:53 Mon-Fri
07:41 00:53 Sat
07:38 21:18 Sun/PH

SOP to Lidcombe Train
First Last
05:58 23:58 Mon-Fri
06:18 23:38 Sat/Sun/PH

SOP to Parramatta Bus
First Last
05:54 22:47 Mon-Fri
06:29 22:48 Sat
07:29 20:50 Sun/PH

Strathfield to SOP Bus
First Last
05:30 00:17 Mon-Fri
06:20 00:15 Sat
07:20 20:41 Sun/PH

Lidcombe to SOP Train
First Last
05:50 23:50 Mon-Fri
06:10 23:50 Sat/Sun/PH

Parramatta to SOP Bus
First Last
06:04 21:48 Mon-Fri
07:10 21:40 Sat
07:10 19:40 Sun/PH

[Frosty]

Same problems exist along the Airport Line between Central and the Airport stations. After 12 or 1am there is basically no PT to the Airport & Mascot. The Airport is 24/7 for staff even if planes don't take off between 12am and 5am.

[Geo101]

Same problems exist along the Airport Line between Central and the Airport stations. After 12 or 1am there is basically no PT to the Airport & Mascot. The Airport is 24/7 for staff even if planes don't take off between 12am and 5am.

They could easily extend the N20 Riverwood to Rockdale service into the city to pick up those stations.

[simonl]

Same problems exist along the Airport Line between Central and the Airport stations. After 12 or 1am there is basically no PT to the Airport & Mascot. The Airport is 24/7 for staff even if planes don't take off between 12am and 5am.

They could easily extend the N20 Riverwood to Rockdale service into the city to pick up those stations.

Yet 16 years after they airport line has opened, they haven't.

[Geo101]

Yet 16 years after they airport line has opened, they haven't.

Is it a case of that the overall running of the Nightride service is expensive (in that it provides a uniform hourly service on all routes), and perhaps the cost of fine tuning it just isn't worth the return.

I haven't recently thought of the Airport line situation, however I did have the need to go to the international freight terminal early one morning about a year or so ago, and ended up getting a cab from the city, verses getting a Nightride to Wolli Creek and then a cab from there.

Aside from the airport itself, there must be a fairly large population around the Green Square locality, and as per my suggestion above, simply extending the Riverwood to Rockdale service could be a cheap(ish) way to at least do a 12 month trial.

[simonl]

I don't think there's any all night services even on weekends between the 394 and the N10 which runs along Princess Hwy IIRC.

Certainly a gap which could be filled, as you point out with the development around Green Square there would be demand. I'd say that there was no real need to trial it, particularly the weekend services. I don't see much merit in serving Domestic but the international terminal could possibly be served since it stays open.

[Frosty]

A simple solution not perfect could be is the 301 run all night since most people don't live at Green Square Station but Victoria Park and extend to Mascot Station and then the Airport. There was plans the make the 301 run all night to Victoria Park Zetland but didn't go ahead in the last major timetable change.

[simonl]

Why 301 rather than 309/310 or some derivative?

[Geo101]

Why 301 rather than 309/310 or some derivative?

Probaby off topic, but it's an interesting point. Mebe prolong the M20? But I've noticed the M20 is a quiet beast after hours.

Running a nightride servive via the airport might be credible, as would running one via Olympic Park?

My original point was to deflect the Carlingford night service via Olympic Park, and after comments in this thread, possibly extend the Riverwood to Rockwood service to the city.

So my (armchair suggestion) is, who to approach?

[Frosty]

The fact the Airport Line and Olympic Branch don't have night ride yet the Carlingford Line with probably only 4 passengers gets a night ride service.

301 is better serves Surry Hills and Waterloo better coverage then the 309/310. Redfern is already served by Night Ride.

[swtt]

The fact the Airport Line and Olympic Branch don't have night ride yet the Carlingford Line with probably only 4 passengers gets a night ride service.

301 is better serves Surry Hills and Waterloo better coverage then the 309/310. Redfern is already served by Night Ride.

All night services is long overdue on a few more of these routes.

Shame that the Metrobus still don't operate past 9 pm on most routes.

[BroadGauge]

I was wondering the reason why there is no Nightride service to Olympic Park.

Admittedly it's just under $20 for a cab fare to Lidcombe?

Gosh, does it cost that much to catch a taxi in Sydney these days for such a short distance? No wonder nobody uses cabs anymore.

[simonl]

The fact the Airport Line and Olympic Branch don't have night ride yet the Carlingford Line with probably only 4 passengers gets a night ride service.

301 is better serves Surry Hills and Waterloo better coverage then the 309/310. Redfern is already served by Night Ride.

Yeah, I was wondering if an alignment along Elizabeth St like the X09/X10 would be better than doing the deviation into Redfern in the small hours which surely adds negative value. I did suggest a derivative of the 309/310. Probably better to use Philip St and Joynton Ave too like the M20.

Re: Carlingford, the N61 does also serve as a debatably useful supplement to the N60 along Liverpool Rd. I personally think it shouldn't do so though. Annoying to have to go that way. On weekends, Granville-Fairfield could be served by a more direct route.

[Stu]

A simple solution not perfect could be is the 301 run all night since most people don't live at Green Square Station but Victoria Park and extend to Mascot Station and then the Airport. There was plans the make the 301 run all night to Victoria Park Zetland but didn't go ahead in the last major timetable change.

There was no definite date set for all of the changes outlined in the media release. I wouldn't be surprised if the changes that have been signaled for STA routes 301 & 438 may happen in late November or into December as this is the time of the year that would see any 24 hr service be well utilised. Mid November will is usually the time when the additional Night Owl services commence operation, the route 438 is a route that has additional Night Owl Services so this may be advantageous for the scheduling division if such routes were announced/directed by TfNSW to be permanently modified to operate a 24 hr services

* The media release from TfNSW back in June currently cannot be found as TfNSW have updated the website and media releases before September 1st do not appear, although there are plenty of other references and articles about this original media release available from various media agencies.

[Stu]

The Night Ride network needs to be reviewed with the goal of simplifying the routes and associated stopping patterns.

- Example (a): 3 x bus routes (N20, N30 & N40) to cover 1 x train route (T2)
- Example (b): 2 x bus routes (N30 & N40) to cover 1 x train route (T3) - making different stops, sharing some stops and criss-crossing each other twice.

- No Night Ride service to Casula Stn or Holsworthy Stn. The Night Ride stop on Hume Hwy is not too far from Casual Stn. The N30 has a non train station stop on Newbridge Rd at Moorebank, this serves as the convenient and near enough is good enough bus stop for a 45 minute walk into Holsworthy or more than 60 minutes to Holsworthy Stn or the immediate surrounding areas of Wattle Grove, Anzac Village and Hammondville.

- Non train station stops - should they exist? is the Night Ride service a train replacement service or an overall early morning transport service? Was the Night Ride service originally slated as a train replacement service and along the way various individuals and/or groups lobbied for additional non-train station stops? For the time being, many people will be happy to hang on to the non-train station stops as it is better than nothing at all.

It would certainly be more convenient for the travelling public to have a 24 hr train service as opposed to a complex Night Ride (bus) system, although a number of questions revolving around the word 'COST' need to be explored and answered:
* Is it cheaper to run buses all night instead of trains?
* Associated cost break down: staff, shifts, scheduling, power source/energy etc.
* If buses are cheaper to operate, then is it possible to review, simplify and improve the Night Ride network?

[Geo101]

Carlingford, the N61 does also serve as a debatably useful supplement to the N60 along Liverpool Rd.

Last I used the N61, it was full from Town Hall until Auburn (standing room only up to Strathfield), after this stop there were only 3-4 pasengers left. That was a Friday night/Saturday morning , I think the 01:27 service.

[simonl]

I don't think much of the above warrants change.
- Casuala - as you note Hume Hwy stop isn't too far away. Are you seriously suggesting that nightride routes deviate into the station like a trackwork bus would?
- Holsworthy - isn't this largely a park and ride station anyway?
- Non station stops - why mess with this? These are useful!

What does warrant change is the indirect routes particularly on Sat/Sun mornings.

Media release is in web archive here: http://web.archive.org/web/201606150722 ... -bus-boost

Last I used the N61, it was full from Town Hall until Auburn (standing room only up to Strathfield), after this stop there were only 3-4 pasengers left. That was a Friday night/Saturday morning , I think the 01:27 service.

Doesn't that suggest that additional N60 services to Auburn is what is needed? The deviation along Liverpool Rd adds a good 15 minutes to the trip to Parra/Fairfield.

Pretty sure the N61 doesn't run Mon-Thu mornings.

[Jurassic_Joke]

You raise a good point, OP.

The fact the Airport Line and Olympic Branch don't have night ride yet the Carlingford Line with probably only 4 passengers gets a night ride service.

Another Gladys stuff-up. She actually took "fixing NightRide" to the 2011 State Election as the Shadow Minister, yet only acted on it a few years ago.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/oppositi ... -l7j7.html

Also, why does the Epping to Chatswood Rail Link have no NightRide? Epping and Chatswood are okay as they've got the N80/N90. However, on the other hand, it's worth pointing out for example, Macquarie Uni has its library open 24 hours for students only (or dedicated study spaces somewhere, whatever same thing), yet what is the point, for students who don't live on campus, for them to make use of the 24 hour facility if they will effectively be stranded after 1am or so or whenever the last bus has departed Mac Centre? I'm checking triptastic right now (at 1am NOT 12am as the forum is reporting), and indeed Mac is dead at the moment.

[simonl]

There is the 288 which runs last outbound service 2:25am Sunday morning ex Sussex St.

[Geo101]

Pretty sure the N61 doesn't run Mon-Thu mornings.

Ah yes, my appologies. The N61 is only a weekend service.

Mebe if they divert it via Olympic Park, we might get a 7 day service?

[Stu]

I don't think much of the above warrants change.
- Casuala - as you note Hume Hwy stop isn't too far away. Are you seriously suggesting that nightride routes deviate into the station like a trackwork bus would?
- Holsworthy - isn't this largely a park and ride station anyway?
- Non station stops - why mess with this? These are useful!

What does warrant change is the indirect routes particularly on Sat/Sun mornings.

Media release is in web archive here: http://web.archive.org/web/201606150722 ... -bus-boost

Yes I was questioning whether or not the non-station stops should remain although I wasn't seeking for a hastened removal so in the mean time I think that they should stay.

Holsworthy station is quite a busy station and serves the surrounding areas of Hammondville, Sandy Point, Voyager Point, Pleasure Point, Wattle Grove and parts of Moorebank. There has been much residential growth in recent years with the opening of:
- Georges Fair Estate. (on the former Boral brick pit and partial sale of land from Brighton Golf Club)
- Brighton Lakes. (partial sale of land from Brighton Golf Club - reducing the number of holes on the golf course)

If TfNSW can justify spending money scheduling buses every 20-30 minutes during a weekend rail shutdown to operate between Glenfield and the City via Holsworthy, then why not operate an hourly night ride service via Holsworthy seven days p/week? Also, if TfNSW cater for non-station stops, then why not allow a service to stop at a train station? After all, stopping at a train station (if physically possible) would part of the night ride criteria I would presume. (Macdonaldtown and Casula excluded)

[simonl]

Where are you thinking of that a service doesn't stop at a train station where that is feasible to do so? Are you saying that, for example, the North Line stop at Cheltenham should deviate to be adjacent to the train station rather than stopping out on Beecroft Rd? If so, I would disagree. Such a deviation would cost more in lost time than the value of the proximity of the train station.

[Stu]

My focus is on Holsworthy station only, this is a station that is not served by a night ride services and which is what I believe to be in your words 'feasible'. The example of the North Line is no problem to me, I'm not advocating for every night ride route to stop outside the gates of every train station, I understand that it may not possible at every train station and a short walk may be required. I made reference Casula station and Macdonaltown station as being excluded as standard size rigid buses cannot fit around the streets at those stations mentioned.

I think that the current operation of N30 not stopping at Holsworthy station stems back to the days when Holsworthy was and had been a small suburb for quite some time, yet on the verge of expanding and the new area of Wattle Grove was in its infancy - back when STA used to operate some night ride services.

Maybe TfNSW can introduce a trial:
- Route N30 can divert via Nuwarra Rd and make a stop before Heathcote Rd on the border of Moorebank & Wattle Grove, then turn left onto Heathcote Rd, right Moorebank Ave and left back onto Newbridge Rd to return to normal route. This wont add much extra time as the distance is short, there is only one extra stop and there is no traffic.
- temporary stop erected before (East of) the Newbridge Rd/Nuwarra Rd intersection, this can allow the service to make the timetabled 'Moorebank' stop as well as be able to turn left turn onto Nuwarra Rd.
- Trial to operate on Saturday morning and Sunday morning services respectively as the service frequency is 30 minutes. This can allow every second service to continue straight along Newbridge Rd to use the permanent timetabled stop after (West of) Nuwarra Rd whilst other services can use the temporary bus stop and then divert via Nuwarra Rd.

I know this proposed trial does not operate to Holsworthy station although at least it would cut the walking time/distance in half and is a step in the right direction whilst not impacting too heavily on the running time of the service or inconveniencing every single longer distance travelling passenger on every service.