Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

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Craig
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Consultation for the new Keysborough South bus route will open next Friday with a workshop discussion on 18 November at Acacia Campus of Keysborough College, Isaac Road, Keysborough.
PTV wrote: A new bus route for Keysborough South

The Victorian Government are proposing a new bus service for residents in Keysborough South.

We will be holding a workshop discussion on the proposed bus route and would like to hear from the community about what their views on the bus proposal and people’s travel needs and priorities are.

The workshop will be held from 6.30pm to 7.30pm on Wednesday 18 November at Keysborough College.

The workshop will present the proposed bus network changes and focus on what the public transport users of Keysborough think of the proposals.

You can register your interest in attending the workshop below, and can also contact the PTV call centre on 1800 800 007.

Can't make it to the workshop? An online survey will also be available on this site from Friday 6 November.

Feedback on the proposed new bus route for Keysborough South will remain open until Monday 30 November.
No doubt keep an eye on https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/Keysborough-south for more details next week.

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Craig :-)
V981
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by V981 »

I shall be there.
The views expressed by me are mine and mine only. They do not neccesarily fall in line with the views of my friends, family, collegues or my employer.
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Craig
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

I'm personally hoping Fuji Bear will be there too. :lol:

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V981
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by V981 »

Craig wrote:I'm personally hoping Fuji Bear will be there too. :lol:

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Craig :-)
Hahaha....I'm pretty sure these days Fuji Bear has retired to this luxury home just near the Fuji-Hakone-Izu National Park. Rumour has it he decided to hang up his boots after successfully upsetting Victorian MP Louise Asher at the "Ban Buses From Brighton" community meeting all those years ago. Fuji said it was good get out "on a high note". :lol:
The views expressed by me are mine and mine only. They do not neccesarily fall in line with the views of my friends, family, collegues or my employer.
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Craig
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Proposals for the new Keysborough South bus route have now been released for public comment.

There are two options, the first a feeder route between Keysborough South & Noble Park, and a second extending the 709 from Waterways to Noble Park.

Image

Further details & FAQ at https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/Keysborough-south

PTV seem to be confused about the frequency "The service will operate seven days per week and is proposed to run at an approximate frequency of 40 minutes all day, 60 minutes off-peak Monday to Sunday. Monday to Friday it will operate from approximately 6am to 9pm, Saturdays 7am to 9pm, Sundays 8am to 9pm." Perhaps 40 mins weekdays and hourly weekends?

It's not clear to me why option B can't have the 709 continue running through Waterways and then out via The Waterways Bvd into Springvale Rd. I hope Waterways residents will be given the chance to have their say if this option goes ahead. I am guessing the large feature lake has not been taken into account when working out the 400m buffer from Governor Rd either.

Interestingly, they advise the existing Keysborough network will be unchanged - this would have been a good oppountity to replace 815 and instead redirect buses to Springvale (which is currently a busy hourly service) - indeed a 40 min weekday service would not allow good off-sets with the hourly 815 between Noble Park & Parkmore.

My preference is option B, allowing residents travel to Mordialloc College and the option to connect with a train to Mentone schools, Southland & Frankston. Noble Park & Keysborough residents will also be able to travel to the beach. In the opposite direction, it gives Mordailloc & Waterways residents direct access to Parkmore, plus Lighthouse Christian College, the option to travel to Noble Park for a train to Dandenong. Importantly, it also saves the 709 from laying over for over a third of the time.

Reminder there is a community workshop on Wednesday night at Keysborough College with a second drop-in session has been announced for Parkmore on November 26.

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Craig
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

The frequency information has now been updated - "The service will operate seven days per week and is proposed to run at an approximate frequency of 40 minutes during the day and 60 minutes after 7pm. "

A 40 min weekend frequency would mean it would run more frequently than other connecting bus routes, including the 828 along Cheltenham Rd!

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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by V981 »

I'm personally in favour of Option B as I think it will positively serve not only Keysborough South but also Noble Park, Braeside, Mordialloc and the existing older part of Keysborough.

Do we know Craig if the plan is that the 709 will continue to operate if Option B is implemented or will it be replaced by the new service?

I assume Option A would result in 709 continuing in its current form.
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Craig
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

V981 wrote:Do we know Craig if the plan is that the 709 will continue to operate if Option B is implemented or will it be replaced by the new service?
It states on the PTV website that option B is an extended 709, "however some loss of coverage will occur in Waterways". This loss of coverage is not insignificant, it means some Waterways residents who have a bus at the end of their street on the south side of the lake will now be over a kilometre from a bus on Springvale Rd or Governor Rd.

"No changes will be made to the existing bus Route 709 service" under option A.

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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by jamesadams7 »

Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I have a feeling PTV will conduct community consultation, receive a public outcry about the loss of coverage and then amend the route accordingly, allowing them to claim they've actively listened to the community and conducted proper consultation. If no changes are made as a result of public consultations, there's the impression that the process was pointless and the community was ignored.
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Attended the workshop tonight, at least 60 residents showed up. A few said they didn't plan to use the bus personally, but were mainly there to represent the needs of their kids who will need to use their bus as they get older.

There was a brief introduction from the local member and former transport minster Martin Pakula (who has taken after Tom Petrovski in the facial hair department) before a quick rundown on the two options & the workshop format by two of the PTV representatives. The workshop then allowed each table of 5 to 8 to discuss the pros and cons of each option with a PTV rep, and record their thoughts down on post it notes. Unlike other forums I'd attended where each table has had a chance to bring together their thoughts at the end to the other tables, people were asked to fill in a paper copy of the survey on their preferred options and travel needs and there was only a brief wrap-up reminding people of the drop-in session at Parkmore next week and to pass on copies of the survey to those who couldn't make it.

Option A is proposed to be a bi-direcitonal route through Keysborough South - e.g. after running clockwise through the estate and returning to Parkmore, it would return to Noble Park back through Keysborough South.

Although PTV referred to option B as the plan previously put forward by Greater Dandenong Council, they failed to acknowledge the two key differences, the loss of route in Waterways and that the bus would travel up Bloomfield Rd rather than Buckley St (presumably to serve Keysborough College) until one of the other attendees noticed the former on the map. PTV is not planning a separate Waterways workshop, and dismissed the lost coverage saying that it would reduce the frequency due to more runtime (there didn't seem to be consideration that you could add an additional bus and potentially upgrade the route to 30 min headways).

The question of changes to routes north of Cheltenham Rd was raised, and there are unlikely to be any changes made - 815 will continue to run up Buckley St. One father had been invited by Martin Pakula's office regarding his concerns about the 812 not serving Dandenong High, and was directed to speak to him directly as it wasn't the core purpose of the discussion. (To be fair, both routes will serve Bloomfield Rd).

The general consensus as that option B was the better option of the two, as it gave people more travel options and as well an alternative route home if there are train disruptions. There were comments that there was no need for a bus on Cheltenham Rd as it was already served by the 828. One switched-on person on my table remarked that Lake View Bvd would be poor alignment for a bus route due to lack of catchment due to the expansive Tatterson Park to the east.

Serving the Hutton Rd end of Keysborough South was raised by a few people with the opening of the new shopping centre and proposed P-12 school. I left a note that a kink along Chapel Rd, Hutton Rd and Perry Rd could solve the issue, however PTV reps suggested they will probarly wait until both open before sending a route that way.


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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Reminder the survey closes today if you haven't already had your say - https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/Keysborough-south

I voted for option B, suggesting that the route must continue to serve Waterways. Rather than worrying that the round trip would no longer be achievable in under 80 mins and therefore jeopardise the proposed 40 min headway, this is actually an opportunity to run a 30 min headway with a third bus.

I've being mulling over some ideas for broader changes to the network that I have also put forward to PTV.

815 - Withdraw route, replaced by Keysborough South route running up Buckley St (rather than Bloomfield Rd).

813 - To compensate for the removal of 815 on Corrigan Rd, increase the headway to half-hourly along the entire route to Waverley Gardens, improving the link between Keysborough & Springvale.

814 - Due to the increase of service on 813, redirect 814 to Glen Waverley instead of Springvale South. Police Rd would continue to be served by the half-hourly 631 and 813, and in parts by 885 and 814/848. Following on from ideas in the bus review, I'd operate the route via Albany Dr, Wellington Rd, Brandon Park Dr, Lum Rd, Waverley Rd and Springvale Rd. Those living in the vicinity of Albany Dr gain a direct rail connection, with the current 848 sending them a long way backwards to Dandenong unless they are happy to change buses (not to mention connections with the 850 at Brandon Park are poor and not guaranteed). It also improves coverage in parts of western Wheelers Hill that have no service today.

848 - Reroute the service to Glen Waverley as per my suggestion for 814, thus providing a half-hourly link between Waverley Gardens & Glen Waverley on a separate corridor to 850.

885 - Extend to Springvale South to cover off this portion of 814, potentially also doubling the service between Springvale & Springvale South to half-hourly.

The end result is several hourly back-street routes become more legible, serving more logical destinations with services doubled on many routes to a more useable half-hourly headway. As there is several cases of resources being reallocated, the net vehicle and operating costs would be moderate.

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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by PaxInfo »

Keysborough's south bus received funding in yesterday's budget. It will be along the lines of Option B discussed above.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/sout ... d804ca65c7

Keysborough South residents will get a new bus route, which will open up the area to both the Frankston and Pakenham/Cranbourne lines. It will also connect with the Route 902 Smart Bus and other bus services. The route will connect Noble Park and Mordialloc train stations via Keylana Drive, Westwood Boulevard and Perry Rd in Keysborough South and Bloomfield Rd in Noble Park
It was also tweeted by the local MP. A map image was included.

https://twitter.com/martinpakulamp?lang=en
‏@MartinPakulaMP On this '16/17 Budget Day, here's the new Keysborough South Bus Route. Frequency, start date announced soon @KSAGVIC
Are you being served? Service aspects of public transport in Melbourne http://melbourneontransit.blogspot.com & MelbOnTransit on Twitter.
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by burrumbus »

Thanks for the info Paxinfo.
Seems like the new route will take out the very low patronage 709 route.
The new route does have some potential for reasonable patronage,paticularily at the Noble Park end.Lets hope there is some some attention to detail re good train connections at each end and to co-ordination with the existing ,albeit hourly 815.There is potential to form a good frequency corridor from Noble Park to Parkmore.
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Fantastic to see PTV has decided to keep the bus travelling in parts of Waterways compared to the original proposal - the lake in the middle of the estate would have resulted in walks of over 1km from part of the suburb to the buses on Governor Rd, Springvale Rd or Wells Rd otherwise.

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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Despite the stock photo, a start date for the extension to 709 has been announced in local media, 28 August.

Buses will now run Mordialloc to Noble Park via Waterways, Keysborough South & Parkmore.

Two modifications to plan B will see buses now travel through part of Waterways instead of travelling directly along Governor Rd and buses will operate 30 min headways instead of every 40 mins.

A route map & consultation summary can be downloaded at https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/Keysborough-south

A timetable will be available from 26 July (the website text incorrectly refers to 27 June for some reason).
Greater Dandenong Leader wrote: Image
Keysborough South commuters get new bus route from Noble Park to Mordialloc train stations
Geordie Cowan, Greater Dandenong Leader
June 24, 2016 12:00am

KEYSBOROUGH South residents will finally see the wheels on the bus go round and round after a new bus route was announced last Monday.

After revving up community support, the push has gone up a gear in the past 12 months, and culminated in Keysborough state Labor MP Martin Pakula saying the new route would start on August 28.

Route 709 will run from Noble Park Station to Mordialloc Station, via Keylana Drive, Westwood Blvd and Perry Rd, in Keysborough South, and Bloomfield Rd, in Noble Park, and connect passengers to the Frankston and Dandenong train lines, and the Route 902 Smart Bus on Springvale Rd.

It will also provide residents south of Cheltenham Rd with a direct connection to Parkmore Shopping Centre.

Keysborough South Action Group spokeswoman Nina Kelly said she was “very pleased with the outcome”, especially with the increased frequency.

“It has gone down from every 40 minutes to every 30 minutes,” Ms Kelly said.

“The group is happy with the route because it clearly shows the community’s opinion was heard back in November (at the consultations with Public Transport Victoria).”

Greater Dandenong Council engineering services director Julie Reid welcomed the new service, which would provide “thousands of residents in Keysborough with better public transport links, improving access to services, schools and activities”.

PTV will notify residents where bus stops will be in the coming weeks.

Details: ptv.vic.gov.au
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Timetable for the extended 709 from August 28 is now available on the PTV website. - http://ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/11122

End-to-end runtime is roughly 40 mins, requiring 3 buses to provide a 30 min headway.

The off-sets with the hourly 815 out of Noble Park are hardly ideal, the buses depart within a few minutes of each other.

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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Mike M »

Craig wrote:Timetable for the extended 709 from August 28 is now available on the PTV website. - http://ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/11122

End-to-end runtime is roughly 40 mins, requiring 3 buses to provide a 30 min headway.

The off-sets with the hourly 815 out of Noble Park are hardly ideal, the buses depart within a few minutes of each other.

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Craig :-)
The question has to be asked then is there any point in keeping the 815? Could it be replaced with short workings between Dandenong & Parkmore SC on the 813?
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by burrumbus »

The existing 812 and 813 from Dandenong to Chandler Road to Parkmore are more than adequate for the patronage on Chandler Road,providing they are offset to provide a 30 minute frequency.
The real latent demand in the area,judging from the huge numbers of cars parked around the Noble Park shopping area is for feeder buses from Noble Park station south through to at least Parkmore.The hourly 815 just does not cut the mustard and is barely used.
The new 709 route at a half hourly frequency is a welcome improvement,but still not ideal to really attract pax,connecting to/from trains.
Could I suggest canning the present 815 service and using the resources to provide a 30 minute shuttle Noble Park-Parkmore-Noble Park via either Buckley Street or Corrigan Road.With 709 and this shuttle working a combined 15 minute frequency-Noble Park-Parkmore would surely encourage use.
There is also a need to provide a service from Noble Park north through Oakwood Park to Waverley Gardens.People in these 1970's built estates have to go to Dandenong to get a feeder bus to their estates on 2 hourly routes.
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by Craig »

Dandenong Star wrote: Residents’ safety fear over new bus routes
23 September 2016 2:13 PM .
By Casey Neill

The new Keysborough South bus route has some residents scared for their safety.

Dhani, who did not want her surname published, lives just off Keylana Drive and is worried about buses on the 709 route using the road between Lake View Boulevard and Chapel Road.

“It’s a very narrow road, even for two cars to pass through,” she said.

“There are three pretty curvy turns as well.

“The one near my house almost goes at 90 degrees.”

Dhani said that since the route started on Sunday 28 August, neighbours had reported getting stuck behind buses during peak hour and impatient drivers entering the wrong side of the road to pass them.

“Speeding’s always been an issue in Keylana,” she said.

“People come down to avoid Cheltenham Road traffic.”

Dhani said that on the other end of the spectrum, she’d seen some bus drivers travelling too fast along Keylana.

“I almost got taken out by a bus travelling in the opposite direction and I had to brake,” she said.

She suggested the route could use Lake View Boulevard to bypass Keylana’s most narrow section.

“I’m on the side closer to Chapel Road, that’s where the curves mainly are,” she said.

“The other side, there are two roundabouts but they’re not as narrow and they’re not as curvy.”

Greater Dandenong councillor Matthew Kirwan said changing the route to avoid Keylana could also enable the bus to serve the new shopping centre, proposed school and community hub.

Public Transport Victoria (PTV) spokesman John Lindsay said the new 709 bus route was chosen following extensive consultation with the local community, the council and the operator.

“Keylana Drive was identified as the most logical road for a route that could be accessed by the most people, while maintaining the most direct alignment as possible,” he said.
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by tranzitjim »

I would have supported both the red and blue routes in the above map.

I see the blue one has been chosen.

I would have suggested, replacing the #815, by operating as the red route proposed for #709, and run that to the previous terminus for #709
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Re: Solve The Keysborough Bus Issue

Post by ashwin108 »

Here is a proposal for a second bus route , planned for 2023.
Image

https://greaterdandenong.com/document/9 ... DGBUIXaosQ

Funding has been pledged by Martin Pakula MP .
Actual route may be different though.
I feel the proposed route does not link to any railway station, a detour to Noble Park station would be preferable. The route can then progress back northward via Kelvinside road / Corrigan road. It would require new traffic signals at the corner of Albany drive and Police road.
An alternative would be to head north from Noble park via Dunblane Rd, Princes highway and Browns road to Waverley Gardens.

It's nice to see some suggestion of a regional bus route rather than a purely local one. It is difficult to reach all the nearby trip generators though, proposal misses Parkmore.
Clayton Station might be a better terminus at the northern end of the route as well.
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