New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Linto63
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Linto63 »

pgt wrote: Not that I've looked too hard but what sort of seats are inside these new NIF trains
New seats look a bit bolt upright, but not as bad as some as the ironing board seats introduced in other countries recently. They appear to have at least some padding and legroom looks ok. Moveable armrest will be a welcome change.
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boronia
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by boronia »

Plenty of interior images off Google
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=htt ... AdAAAAABAD
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tonyp
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by tonyp »

pgt wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:25 am As much as the V sets are nice, having had a ride of them a couple of times in the last month they were definitely starting to show their age a bit.

Not that I've looked too hard but what sort of seats are inside these new NIF trains... as long as they're not as hard as those on the Queensland NGR sets that they use between the Gold Coast and Brisbane (which I had to travel last week), it'll be an improvement.
(Think "ironing board"... heck the seat back even looked like one - and none of this at-seat power or other fanciness).
Just looking at the NIF seats in the images available, they look the same as similar ones I've travelled in in Europe. Their main advance on the Oscar's church pews is that they're individual seats moulded to fit the body shape better (what size and shape body is another matter!), but they're going to be quite hard because the emphasis nowadays is on vandal resistance. So we won't be getting the nice comfy cushions of the V sets or any older trains in NSW. This is where journey time comes into it. A seat that is comfortable for 30 or 45 minutes may degenerate to torture after the 1 to 1.5 hour mark (make that 15 minutes and 30 minutes for the Oscar). I don't recall having any loss of comfort after two hours in a V set.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Swift »

The U set seats were top notch as well. My mother used to comment about how good they were. Good to hear the Ds are better than the Oscar.
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Linto63
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: ...they're going to be quite hard because the emphasis nowadays is on vandal resistance.
Also need to be made out of more fire retardant materials.
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RayW
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by RayW »

A quick note on the old Vs, I'm working on a model to bring them up to the 21st century.

As for the Ms, nothing about them impresses me, apart from the outside design. That at least is quite good.

For comfort. My wife and I had the displeasure of traveling to Kiama recently on an Oscar. By the time we got there, we were so sore, we decided to return to Sydney by coach.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

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Swift wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:20 am The U set seats were top notch as well. My mother used to comment about how good they were. Good to hear the Ds are better than the Oscar.
We won't know until we actually get to ride in one for a couple of hours.

Asian trains are generally quite good on comfort, but this mob have probably gone looking for cheaper options.
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tonyp
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by tonyp »

I would hope that they would be a bit better than the Oscar's Church pews. Of course the Endeavours have the same seats, which us ok for 30 minutes. I sometimes wonder whether they have a chiropractor meeting every Bathurst Endeavour when it arrives.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by RayW »

I suppose it could be worse, since we're talking about the good old days. How many of you are old enough to remember catching a tram to Taronga Zoo? As I recall as a 6 year old, I believe they were wooden slatted benches.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

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The wooden slatted benches were quite crude by today's standards. Despite being hard, they were well shaped and certainly didn't leave you feeling "distorted" after 15 minutes.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

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RayW wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:23 am I suppose it could be worse, since we're talking about the good old days. How many of you are old enough to remember catching a tram to Taronga Zoo? As I recall as a 6 year old, I believe they were wooden slatted benches.
I did a couple of times. My mother was quite put off by the fact that there was no direct service from Wynyard, and we had to change somewhere along Military Rd.

Passengers coming from the city were expected to catch the ferry to Athol, then take a tram up to the top gates. You could get an "all-in-one" ticket at CQ.
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tonyp
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by tonyp »

RayW wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:23 am I suppose it could be worse, since we're talking about the good old days. How many of you are old enough to remember catching a tram to Taronga Zoo? As I recall as a 6 year old, I believe they were wooden slatted benches.
Yes, but if you go and look at those trams at the tram museum at Loftus (e.g. O class), you'll see that the seats were ergonomically designed to fit the shape of the lower and upper body. That was done in the early 20th century. The clods who designed the Oscars and similar modern works of genius couldn't even get a grasp of such design basics a century later.
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boronia
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by boronia »

Seat technology for the drivers is continually improving, but goes backwards for the passengers.

Remember on the early emu stock, the driver sat on a little wooden "bar stool" next to an open doorway.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Glen »

boronia wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:43 pm Remember on the early emu stock, the driver sat on a little wooden "bar stool" next to an open doorway.
Or in many cases, stood.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by RayW »

Glen wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:27 pm
boronia wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:43 pm Remember on the early emu stock, the driver sat on a little wooden "bar stool" next to an open doorway.
Or in many cases, stood.
Speaking of the Emu's. Am I to assume with the new sets, we shan't be hanging out the doors like back in the good old days? :roll:
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Fleet Lists »

Heading from a long article in the Telegraph today https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... erallPos=3
NSW train negotiations blow up over RTBU union request for new fleet

Six weeks of negotiations, aimed at quelling further industrial action on Sydney trains, have been blown apart on the final day over the union’s continued refusal to operate the $2.88 billion New Intercity Fleet.
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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

I’m glad the government is putting their foot down, it’s seriously about time. Took them long enough.

Last time I checked, we didn’t elect the RBTU at the last state election. They shouldn’t be deciding if/when/how trains are rolled out.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Swift »

As someone starting with t said, they are Labor's foot in the door when they're in opposition, ruling from the sidelines.
The left don't believe in democracy.
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tonyp
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by tonyp »

Jurassic_Joke wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:12 am I’m glad the government is putting their foot down, it’s seriously about time. Took them long enough.

Last time I checked, we didn’t elect the RBTU at the last state election. They shouldn’t be deciding if/when/how trains are rolled out.
From a practical commuters' point of view, it's no loss not having them. They aren't going to produce faster travel times or better timetables, they'll have less seats if running in less than 10 car consist, and less at-level seating and poor luggage arrangements. The main issue is a wasted investment and the lost opportunity to cascade the Oscars to suburban service. A positive will be postponing the advent of fixed direction seating.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote: They aren't going to produce faster travel times or better timetables, they'll have less seats if running in less than 10 car consist, and less at-level seating and poor luggage arrangements.
They will probably be marginally faster than the V sets, much like the H sets are, but not enough to significantly decrease journey times. A six-car D set should have a few more seats than a four-car H or V set. I'm sure those with mobility issues will be glad to see the end of the V sets. Great trains back in the day, but their time has come.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Swift »

I do agree they're showing their age -in their current form.
If they had been refurbished at least 15 years ago, had more money spent on them than a mere interior refresh and made DDA compliant with heavy mods, they could have been kept on much longer.
You won't get solid durability like Comeng Granville ever again.
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by lunchbox »

Today's news reports that it's costing $30M a month to "store" the NIFs while the government and the unions argue. How can it cost $1M a day to store unused trains?
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by moa999 »

Suspect they are paying for them as if they are in use.
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boronia
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by boronia »

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Linto63
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Re: New Intercity Fleet Purchases/Observation

Post by Linto63 »

Swift wrote: If they had been refurbished at least 15 years ago, had more money spent on them than a mere interior refresh and made DDA compliant with heavy mods, they could have been kept on much longer.
If they had been refurbished 15 years ago, they would be old hat by now. You can keep on refurbishing trains till the frame collapses, but by the time they get to the age they are now, the pros and cons of a refurbishment vs a new build favour the latter.
lunchbox wrote: Today's news reports that it's costing $30M a month to "store" the NIFs while the government and the unions argue. How can it cost $1M a day to store unused trains?
Not costing $1 million a day to store them per se, but that would be what the government is paying to the RailConnect consortium to lease and maintain the trains irrespective of whether they are being used or not.
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