Inner West Light Rail observations

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boronia
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by boronia »

This could be one of the hazards of dealing with consortium packages. They can be well structured to ensure buck-passing when problems like this arise.
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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

A comment on that article near the bottom that got my attention:

The other light rail trams can run on the Inner west line. Arrangements (ie permission from the safety regulator) are being made now to enable those trams to be transferred
Anyone know if this is true?
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boronia
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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There was a work team engaged in rail welding work on the Hay/George Sts crossing last Saturday during the shutdown.

I wonder if they are taking advantage of the closure to modify the affected parts of the tracks?

The CAF trams could be retrofitted with standard wheels while they are grounded.

The height/gap difference in the Citadis could be overcome with ramps. An attendant on the trams could deploy them when required; there always seems to be lots of "i" staff hanging around CSE platforms they could borrow.
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moa999
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by moa999 »

Canberra has reported no cracks in its thoroughly checked tram.

Interestingly appears between the Sydney order and Canberra, CAF has changed the bogie box material from mild steel to aluminium.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Swift »

Like Newcastle, Canberra's system is pretty much straight track all the way. It's the tight curves in Sydney and elsewhere overseas that causes the cracking doesn't it?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by boronia »

So theory would have it.
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matthewg
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by matthewg »

moa999 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:40 pm Canberra has reported no cracks in its thoroughly checked tram.

Interestingly appears between the Sydney order and Canberra, CAF has changed the bogie box material from mild steel to aluminium.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329
Changing the frame to aluminium could make future problems worse. Aluminium is less ductile than steel and under repeated flexing that would be shrugged off by a steel beam, aluminium will harden and fracture.

CAF has been bitten by aluminium extrusions on mainline carriages for the UK, with brackets tearing free of the structure. They probably switched to aluminium to make the carriage lighter. But possibly didn't fully mitigate the downsides of the material switch.

Also, any welder can do steel, special equipment and skill are needed to do aluminium repairs.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by tonyp »

matthewg wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:50 am
Changing the frame to aluminium could make future problems worse.

That was my first thought when I read that. They do it to save weight, a perennial concern with any manufacturer of public transport vehicles. But a balance with structural strength has to be struck.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by moa999 »

Think it depends on the construction. Aluminium is definitely more malleable, and in many circumstances is more ductile.

It's also more easily cast - so a single piece aluminium casting might be far superior to a similar steel piece with multiple welds.
(See Tesla and it's investment in megacast machines)

So it really depends on what CAF is doing with this change.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Aurora »

Also to remember it has taken eight years for the cracks in Sydney and UK. As the Newcastle and ACT lines are only a couple years old, we will have to wait and see what they find in 4-5 years down the track.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Swift »

Thicker aluminium and we'll engineered webbing may be key.
The Ford BA -FGX six cylinder engine, while not aluminium, is an excellent example of engine block strength largely attributable to we'll designed webbing, hence why they can get incredible horsepower out of a largely unaltered engine.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by jpp42 »

An interesting post on Reddit about testing of a Citadis on the IWLR. Looks like they tested it on the Central loop and were measuring platform clearances at multiple stops. https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comment ... _on_inner/
Last edited by jpp42 on Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »



Hmm looks like the Citadis heading down the Central ramp it went quite slow, even struggled a bit with that noise I heard, but the outbound turn into Hay Street looked surpringly smooth, you don’t hear any of that awful screeching the CAFs would give on that turn. And from what I remember, CAFs would already crawl down the ramp anyway. Going up, they’d accelerate with a little speed but that footage wasn’t captured of the Citadis I see

I’m very glad to see they’re testing this. Even if it doesn’t work out, at least they tried.

What would be some possible successful outcomes of this? Central to the Casino? Fish Markets? Even Lilyfield?
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by hornetfig »

^ That grind on a straight section of constant incline is perhaps a worrying reflection on the state of L1 perway
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Walked past Capitol Square stop and the perimeter of the tram stop was covered with construction site fences and workers.

Wonder what they might be up to
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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Has been a lot of work around this area for reshaping the footpaths and roadway for all the new paving.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Swift »

A Volvo B12BLEA would have no trouble traveling down that ramp just saying...
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by matthewg »

hornetfig wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:39 pm ^ That grind on a straight section of constant incline is perhaps a worrying reflection on the state of L1 perway
I think that noise was the track brake activating. They may have wanted to test that the emergency brake worked acceptably on the grade.

Vario drivers were taught to use the leading track brake only as a service brake on that grade if they thought the car might 'get away'. The Vario has a pedal on the floor for this - only activates the track brake on the leading module and you can just 'tap' for a quick hit. The track brake button or the emergency position on the master controller turns them all full-on.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

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I noticed today that route indicators at intersections are now in place along the light rail replacement routes.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

boronia wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:38 pm Has been a lot of work around this area for reshaping the footpaths and roadway for all the new paving.
Walked past again and they were doing what looked like rebuilding or at least redoing the paving on the platform.

I just realised, in relation to the Citadis - Capitol Square stop has a raised hump on each platform to align with the door where the wheelchair space is in the Urbos trams. I think this hump wouldn’t actually line up correctly with the two doors in the second and fourth module of the Citadis which is probably another awkward issue. Secretly hope they picked this up in the recent night of testing and are correcting it if they’re still seriously considering using said tram on L1. I wonder what was the overall outcome of the night of testing. I also wonder why the Government has been so quiet about the testing - maybe awkward to backtrack on previously insisting how it wasn’t possible? Paddy’s Market stop on the other hand the entire length of the platform is the same height, its definitely higher than Capitol Square.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by tonyp »

Thise raised humps were done for the Variotram.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/gov ... 59fl8.html
The documents also reveal that cracking has been identified in the door frames of the trams.
And voila, can’t say I’m surprised. Hopefully they finally stop with opening doors automatically at every stop when the CAFs eventually come back, i’ve always said that’s a very bad idea for minimising wear and tear on the tram
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Linto63 »

Automatically opening doors at every stop isn't going to be the reason the door frames have cracks.
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Re: Inner West Light Rail observations

Post by Swift »

Still needs to revert to passenger operated to save on A/C.
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