Inner West Light Rail observations

[Myrtone]

There's a reason for them - so that the Citadis don't chew up the tracks on the curve. A reason why they should have bought swivelling bogie trams.

Or they should have got trams that have fixed bogies but with slightly shorter overhangs, and thus single leaf rather than double leaf front doors. Also are the curves in question appropriately spiraled?

Dubai, the fine for interfering with the Tram like this incident starts at $20 k AUD plus damage costs.

Since you mentioned Dubai, I should note that the Al Sulfouh tramway has, like many second generation tramways, had nothing but fixed bogie short segment trams in its fleet right from the outset, yet it is smooth and reliable. And not, I don't think that is (just) because of minimum curve radius.

[gascoyne]

What will happen to Fish Market station when the new FM opens? The new fm will be much closer to WP station than to FM.

I reckon it could be closed. Due to the curvature of the track there, FM station makes a negligible contribution to the 400-metre catchments of other stations.

Or, FM station could be re-named. No doubt the Geog Names Board will come up with something remarkable.

[alleve]

I'd imagine a rename, don't think they'd close it since it'd still be a useful stop for people living near it.

[Swift]

Plus it’s built

[rtt_rules]

I'd imagine a rename, don't think they'd close it since it'd still be a useful stop for people living near it.

As the site is to be redeveloped to include housing and business I agree it will stay.

The slow horse shoe on L1 is I'm sure a detraction for ridership from further west, perhaps a future 500 m tunnel and operate the line has two lines in one?

[Swift]

Sis people going to the Fish Markets use it though, apart from those working there?
You could still retain the name due to it being historic.

[tonyp]

Sis people going to the Fish Markets use it though, apart from those working there?
You could still retain the name due to it being historic.

The new fish markets are a little closer to Glebe light rail stop.

[boronia]

Wentworth Park is also close . Even with the existing site, it eliminates the trudge down through the car parks to get to the main building.

[tonyp]

Wentworth Park is also close . Even with the existing site, it eliminates the trudge down through the car parks to get to the main building.

Yes, Wentworth Park is even closer. The present Fish Market stop will be the furthest away from the new fish market.

[Swift]

Sis people going to the Fish Markets use it though, apart from those working there?
You could still retain the name due to it being historic.

The new fish markets are a little closer to Glebe light rail stop.

In that case, yep change the name or close.

[boronia]

Sis people going to the Fish Markets use it though, apart from those working there?
You could still retain the name due to it being historic.

“The next stop is Fishmarkets. But don’t get off here if you are going to the fish markets”.

Maybe change it to West Pyrmont or whatever name they give to the new development.

[rtt_rules]

“The next stop is Fishmarkets. But don’t get off here if you are going to the fish markets”.

Maybe change it to West Pyrmont or whatever name they give to the new development.

Haha, yes, we are likely to see some name changes as a result of this, but I doubt a new station will get called FishMarket, just the current one will be rebranded to what ever.

[alleve]

Confirmation from TfNSW that L1 stops will be renamed:

Screenshot_20250105_210710_Chrome.jpg

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/new ... 5l0to.html

[lunchbox]

NEW FISHMARKETS
The re-naming of the L1 Light rail stops may already have been decided by the Geographical Names Board. Aboriginal names are likely, as 4 of the 9 members of the GNB (44%) have employment / experience backgrounds in aboriginal matters. Given the predicted high level of tourists to the new Fishmarket (Sydney Morning Herald, 6.1.25), names based on local landmarks would be beneficial in tourists' way-finding, but the GNB's priorities seem to lie elswhere.
Providing a frequent ferry service to the head of Blackwattle Bay, without penalising commuter travel times on Parramatta River, may present a challenge to Transport NSW.

[alleve]

It says stops but I don't get why they'd need to change any stop names other than Fishmarket

[Aurora]

The story suggested a new route for the new fish market.

As for stop names, they may change the nearest light rail stop to the new one Fish Markets.

[alleve]

Would be a very poor choice if they do. The nearest LR stop is in Wentworth Park and would be inappropriately named if they changed the name

[gascoyne]

Two comments on Fish Market station:

1. It never was the best stop for the fish market unless you particularly wanted to enter via the car park and walk past those stinky trash skips. After leaving the fish market, there's an additional difficulty: finding Fish Market station. Much easier to go to Wentworth Park station!

2. Fish Market station is on such a tight curve that it adds very little 400-metre catchment to that provided by Wentworh Park and John St Square. I'd guess that it got built because of a policy to provide stations every 450 metres (or whatever) measured along the track unless other considerations such as viaducts or tunnels preclude stations.

[boronia]

The story suggested a new route for the new fish market.

As for stop names, they may change the nearest light rail stop to the new one Fish Markets.

They would need to change the existing Fish Markets stop; people can be easily educated to "alight at Wentworth Park for the Fish Markets". It might take a while for the name to disappear from third party promotional material.

I rode on the L1 a few weeks ago. The announcements at Convention were still saying "alight here for Harbourside Shopping Centre".

[rtt_rules]

2. Fish Market station is on such a tight curve that it adds very little 400-metre catchment to that provided by Wentworh Park and John St Square. I'd guess that it got built because of a policy to provide stations every 450 metres (or whatever) measured along the track unless other considerations such as viaducts or tunnels preclude stations.

Yep Fish Market is roughly the same distance from Convention, Pyrmont Bay, The Star Casino, John Square (Fish Market is next) and Wentworth park in order from Central. ie 380 m to 520 m as the crow flys.


2024 Jan to Nov total head count

Convention 424 k (its in the name why people go there) 424 k

Pyrmont Bay 428 k (museam, Pyrmont bridge, ferry, Darling Harbour, bars and tourist)

The Star Casino 710 k (needs no further explanation, assume they still run late night shuttles from here to Central after rest of line is closed. In short moving asians from China town to the Casino and back and before anyone pipes in with their PC garage, thats what my inlaws do)

John Square 204 k (No idea why you would go here, clearly few do and those who do are there for asian food)

Fish Market 408 k (Catching the tram, walking under a series of fly overs through a car park to buy fish seems popular)

WW Park 142 k (building a station between a park and major fly over road junction is clearly not a popular destination)

So moving FM closer to WW Park station may actually bring some life to the station

Now, next time someone is at the current Fish Market station, please take the 360 photos and upload to Google as there are no Google Street view photos of FM station.

[alleve]

In short moving asians from China town to the Casino and back and before anyone pipes in with their PC garage, thats what my inlaws do)

Relax, nobody is trying to "cancel" you over light rail observations on an internet forum.

TfNSW even seems to be aware of the demographics of the Star Casino stop, as evidenced by the numbering of the Urbos 3 fleet:

Screenshot_20250110_155642_Chrome.jpg

[boronia]

Two comments on Fish Market station:

1. It never was the best stop for the fish market unless you particularly wanted to enter via the car park and walk past those stinky trash skips. After leaving the fish market, there's an additional difficulty: finding Fish Market station. Much easier to go to Wentworth Park station!

Probably considered for safety reasons to avoid pedestrian congestion around Wattle St and Bridge Rd. Will be interesting to see how it copes with the new site.

[tonyp]

Relax, nobody is trying to "cancel" you over light rail observations on an internet forum.

TfNSW even seems to be aware of the demographics of the Star Casino stop, as evidenced by the numbering of the Urbos 3 fleet:
Screenshot_20250110_155642_Chrome.jpg

CAF's highly misleading marketing of their tram's capacity as 272. This is at 8 ppsm, at which point the vehicle would be completely dysfunctional due to lack of doors. It would be like cramming 100 people into a bus with one door. With only the equivalent of three double leaf doors, the CAFs would be challenged to fit 200 people on board, more like 180. With six double leaf doors, the Sydney Citadis would comfortably carry 220 passengers.

[Merc1107]

If that's all the capacity trams in Sydney boast, it's little wonder Brisbane quickly went off the idea of converting the busway to light rail when the "Metro" is purportedly able to carry 150-180 passengers.

[tonyp]

If that's all the capacity trams in Sydney boast, it's little wonder Brisbane quickly went off the idea of converting the busway to light rail when the "Metro" is purportedly able to carry 150-180 passengers.

The Brisbane Metro probably hasn't faced such a challenge yet, but, with only three doors, I bet with 180 people on board, it would be sorely tested for passenger exchange. Its counterparts in Europe have five doors. It's not just an issue of the size of the vehicle, but the number of doors too.