Inner West Light Rail observations

[tonyp]

Let's face it, if the Light Rail replacement is run using Sydney's usual approach to rail replacement, having sufficient capacity won't be a problem. Quite the reverse - the streets of the inner west will be full of a plague of empty buses, a multiple of the number actually required, and with marshals doing their best to outnumber passengers. Linto63's observation seems to bear that out.

It's funny how in Sydney gold plating usually only extends to buses when it's not regular bus passengers involved... some might say that regular bus passengers can be lucky to get the fundamentals, let alone any gold leaf.

So where do you reckon the passengers go during these rail/tram bustitutions?

[Swift]

Well instead of throwing excessive 12m buses at it, causing unnecessary congestion, use less frequent three door articulated buses so they fill up with more passengers and make full use of the three doors for both exit and entry, even if they insist on marshalls supervising at every stop.
Ohhh no! That would actually work well. We can't break our tradition of mediocre choices in Sydney.

[pylelo]

So the light rail has been running with average loads of only about 65 people? I doubt it. At the same time, in that context, buses would have been running with far less than 65, so the same proportional capacity issue applies.

I'd also corroborate that it runs at significantly less than 65pax as a frequent user of the IWLR. Bus substitution of 12.5m buses is the right size for the route. I'd keep the higher capacity options to where they're needed, feels like a moot point for this scenario..

I'd also hypothesise a substitution effect due to the inefficiency of the IWLR replacement route, probably a mix of local bus route alternatives and the car.

[tonyp]

I'd also corroborate that it runs at significantly less than 65pax as a frequent user of the IWLR. Bus substitution of 12.5m buses is the right size for the route. I'd keep the higher capacity options to where they're needed, feels like a moot point for this scenario..

I'd also hypothesise a substitution effect due to the inefficiency of the IWLR replacement route, probably a mix of local bus route alternatives and the car.

There's no doubt that the users of the line will scatter over a range of alternatives, it's just that one day when things return to normal post covid, there will normally be packed trams again in peaks and weekends, well in excess of the capacity of the replacement buses. When train services are replaced, there's a similar "vanishing" in my observations. There are certainly not anything like the number of people normally using the trains on the bustitution buses.

[Linto63]

Rather than being a prophet of doom, why not just wait and see what happens? Your predictions of anarchy have so far have proven to be unfounded.

[Merc1107]

How quickly is Sydney coming back to life, anyway?

It took months for other cities to recover from the initial COVID shock, although they have emerged from subsequent lockdowns rather more quickly. Sydney, though, has just emerged from a prolonged lockdown, and I imagine there's more hesitancy to return to normality, at least for now.

[Linto63]

Roads are busy, back to pre-Covid levels in places, but public transport use is down, peak-hour trains I have caught that would have been full and standing are about one quarter full. CBD is quiet, many office bods seemingly still working from home.

[Linto63]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/hal ... 597co.html Half-price fares for light rail replacements after government backdown
URL corrected Admin

[Fleet Lists]

Timetable selection pages are now available for routes 498 and 499 but therey are no actual timetables available with the timetable lionk replaced by "Not available. Use Trip Planner"
I had hoped to see which region would be shown in the timetable link to show whether it is STA region 7 or 9. I had expected region 9 as I mentioned previously but a bus shown on television last night was region 7 so it could be both regions which will be interested once Busways takes over region 7 next month.

[Linto63]

Randwick, Ryde and Waverley are providing the buses.

[J_Busworth]

Most of the trips were operated by Ryde over the past two days, explaining why a Y bus would have been shown on the news. Randwick and Waverley have both been seen supplementing, but only a few trips each.

As it as been assigned officially to R9, I would expect that once R7 is gone to Busways, R9 will pick up the slack. Given the reduced bus requirement in R9 from 5 December, that would seem like a logical time for R9 to take over from Y on the 498/499.

[boronia]

Channel 9 News tonight "discovered" 6 Variotrams sitting in a yard at North Penrith.

[boronia]

Cracks seen ‘opening and closing’ on inner west trams

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cra ... 597hm.html

[Transtopic]

As a casual observer on this thread, I'd be interested to know why the fixed bogie design was selected over the swivelling bogie, and what advantage is there for one or the other? Is it just cost of maintenance? Can you help me out Tony?

Just as an aside, it doesn't auger well for the CAF new regional train fleet.

[tonyp]

As a casual observer on this thread, I'd be interested to know why the fixed bogie design was selected over the swivelling bogie, and what advantage is there for one or the other? Is it just cost of maintenance? Can you help me out Tony?

Just as an aside, it doesn't auger well for the CAF new regional train fleet.

For the CAF trams, which were chosen directly by TfNSW, cheapest price plus lack of knowledge by TfNSW about tram technology. For the Alstoms, they came as part of the winning consortium's package and these consortiums will typically include the cheapest tram as part of their package unless the commissioning agency specifies minimum design standards. Again, a problem with TfNSW not knowing enough to do this.

Why fixed bogie trams after the technology was superseded by the superior swivelling bogie tram more than a century ago? (As if like still building railway wagons with four wheel trucks instead of bogies.) Because modern manufacturers trying to get a foothold in the lucrative new light rail market found it was cheaper to manufacture and also enabled one less bogie per 30 metres, which also saved manufacturing cost (but increases axle load and stress, which of course becomes the operator's problem, not the manufacturer's).

With the articulated body, each module then takes on the role of swinging in alignment with the bogie (but not enough) as the tram rounds corners. The extra weight and inflexibility of this places enormous stresses on the bogie, the track and the body of the vehicle. It should be noted that these body cracks on the CAFs are around the bogies. It also has an effect on the track and the wear thereon results in those "temporary" speed restrictions you see along the IWLR. It's also naive to assume that this won't eventually arise with the Alstom trams and the track on CSELR. Since Adelaide introduced Alstom Citadis trams, signs of track wear have been emerging. Adelaide's first trams were Bombardiers with swivelling bogies. Alstom has a shrewder policy than CAF to control how their trams are used, which includes slowing down a lot on curves and corners - one of the issues with trying to speed up CSELR. The faster they go, the more damage will occur.

So, it's easy enough to blame this type of tram design. These are well known issues in the industry and the reason why the legacy systems of Europe predominantly buy trams with swivelling bogies, unless the lines on which the trams operate are typically straight, which a lot of tramways are in grid-layout cities, which most European cities - and Sydney - aren't. Transit agencies and operators are, however, free to choose not to buy fixed bogie trams and they don't when they're clued up about the technology.

The problem we have here is that TfNSW is not a clued up agency (though I suspect that they're now riding a slow learning curve). They've let the government down monumentally, but of course the political buck stops with the government which has to wear it. The role of public service professionals is to provide the technical know-how for politicians who can't be expected to have that technical knowledge themselves. Although Labor is making nice political capital out of this (and no, local manufacture will not necessarily solve the problem), if they were in power and establishing a tram system, TfNSW would have let them down just as badly. A case of there but for the grace of god go I.

I don't know that we can necessarily read this through to the CAF regional trams, but CAF is certainly going to acquire huge reputational damage in general out of this.

[Jurassic_Joke]

While I’m pleased to see this government has now copped it a fair bit about the fateful and very reckless decision to let CSELR trams be built to a different and incompatible standard to IWLR, I think there should also be some (media) scrutiny of how and why the very young Variotrams were disposed of (which, if they they were just kept and maintained, we could’ve at least had a partial light rail service).

I saw Channel 9 last night published some footage of when the Vario’s were sitting helplessly in the Penrith yard, that’s a good start

[Swift]

The Varios must have been deemed too associated with the system to Lilyfield and not to Dullwich Hill so they wanted to repackage this new lengthy system with look at me new shape LRVs.

[tonyp]

While I’m pleased to see this government has now copped it a fair bit about the fateful and very reckless decision to let CSELR trams be built to a different and incompatible standard to IWLR, I think there should also be some (media) scrutiny of how and why the very young Variotrams were disposed of (which, if they they were just kept and maintained, we could’ve at least had a partial light rail service).

I saw Channel 9 last night published some footage of when the Vario’s were sitting helplessly in the Penrith yard, that’s a good start

That would be a side effect of the deal with CAF where TfNSW was persuaded that they would get a even better deal if they replaced the Variotrams with six more CAFs. I remember all the spin about how they got a great deal with CAF (only $2 million per tram they said) that justified the Variotrams going. Later I asked my friend in the European tram industry how much the trams actually cost and he said $4 million each. The other factor is that politicians like everything looking squeaky clean new for the publicity and are prepared to hurl taxpayers' money wantonly to that end. One day somebody needs to have a serious look at TfNSW, for many reasons.

[moa999]

Worth reading this thread on RP from the time.
https://www.railpage.com.au:80/f-p1971315.htm

Basically seems that CAF priced new trams very cheap, and had a pretty high quote for refurbishment of the Varios.

Remembering also that the Varios had moved to Stadler by this time and the design had been altered quite a bit.

[tonyp]

The first generation Variotrams were a product that Bombardier inherited when it took over Adtranz. The second generation made by Stadler have nothing to do with it. So Bombardier was the maintenance contractor and lost that contract to CAF. CAF wasn't interested in maintaining the Variotrams and leveraged the government on that. The Variotrams ran trouble-free for years. The mishap a couple of them had towards the end of their service was when they were under CAF's watch as maintenance contractor.

[boronia]

Is it coincidental that CAF got the IWLR maintenance contract, and then discovered that the Varios were uneconomical to overhaul, but "we can give you a good deal to buy new trams from us (and you can sell the old ones off to another operator)"? Now that Alstom has that maintenance contract, I wonder if another "good deal" will be in the offering (although the trade ins will be tainted)
?

[tonyp]

Is it coincidental that CAF got the IWLR maintenance contract, and then discovered that the Varios were uneconomical to overhaul, but "we can give you a good deal to buy new trams from us (and you can sell the old ones off to another operator)"? Now that Alstom has that maintenance contract, I wonder if another "good deal" will be in the offering (although the trade ins will be tainted)
?

I wasn't going to say it boronia, but thank you for filling in some of the rest of my post anyway

[gascoyne]

According to SMH, "Transport Minister expects Spanish manufacturer to pay for cracked trams"

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tra ... 597tq.html

NSW Transport Minister Rob Stokes says the state government expects the Spanish manufacturer of Sydney’s cracked inner west trams to pay for their rectification.

[boronia]

And a former Transport Minister assured us a few years ago that the government wouldn't pay a cent for Acciona's costs overruns on the CSELR. What did it end up costing us?

I'll bet CAF will try to shunt the blame onto Alstom for a lack of proper maintenance. The lawyers will be lining up for their Xmas bonuses already.

[tonyp]

Daily Telegraph, 10/11/2021
Transport for NSW last year projected the Inner West trams would be working in 2030

Less than a year after Transport for NSW projected the Inner West Light Rail fleet would in “adequate” condition by 2030, the whole fleet needs major repairs
James O'Doherty
November 10, 2021 - 6:34PM

Exclusive

THE CRIPPLED Inner West Light Rail fleet was deemed to be in “good” condition by government bureaucrats less than a year ago, with the track assessed to be In “excellent – adequate” condition.

Less than 12 months after Transport for NSW projected the fleet to remain in “good” condition by 2030, all 12 trams have been taken out of action for up to 18 months, with officials still clueless about what caused major cracking in the fleet.

It can also be revealed that in financial year 2019-20, the plagued trams met a key reliability target in only one out of 12 months.

Transport Minister Rob Stokes has also failed to give a guarantee that the Spanish manufacturer of 12 cracked tram carriages would pay for the repairs.

The cracks have been blamed on a “design fault,” but the Spanish manufacturer has suggested the damage may have been caused by running the trams on poorly maintained tracks or even because the trams were travelling too fast.

The speculation that tracks had been poorly maintained comes despite officials deeming the tracks were in “excellent – adequate” condition last year.

The “sensitive” government report obtained by The Daily Telegraph reveals that in the final quarter of 2020, authorities believed the Inner West Light Rail would still be in good working order by 2030. Transport for NSW Chief Operating Officer last week said some of the cracks in the fleet appeared to have “some longevity,” but authorities were clueless about the problem last year.

Labor Leader Chris Minns said the projections shows Transport for NSW has “egg on their face egg, because the Government’s decision to buy Spanish-built trams didn’t even last another 12 months”.

“Every single carriage is cracked and commuters are left paying the price – in time and money,” Mr Minns said.

A Transport for NSW spokesman said the assessment of the fleet was in addition to “regular inspections”.

“The expected condition of the fleet in ten years’ time is a forecast of conditions based on current and future maintenance work,” he said.

Before the Inner West Light Rail fleet was taken out of service, it was also failing to meet reliability targets.

In 2019-20, it only met the “mean distance between failures” target once – in August.

Mr Stokes on Wednesday stopped short of giving a guarantee that manufacturer CAF would pay to fix the broken carriages, when asked for a commitment by the Labor Leader.

“It is my expectation that the taxpayer not pay one cent toward the costs of rectification,” Mr Stokes said.

He said it “remains the expectation” of the government that taxpayers won’t pay, but did not give a commitment.