CBD & South East Light Rail

[Swift]

You mean they've broken the back of the roads lobby?
That's massive in their favour.

[alleve]

Would have had they been even half as vigorous as PTV.

I think their strongest suit so far has been metro.

It'd be hard for it not to be, given it's brand new. Although anything would look good compared to how poorly managed the light rail and heavy rail systems are.

[Swift]

Just get off a metro dream at Chatswood and get on the heavy rail reality. No more of that soon.

[Fleet Lists]

WE are totally off subject - please back to City & South East Light Rail

[Swift]

Oh? I was going to bring up that forgotten 80s sitcom Alf. Just as well you stepped in.

[jpp42]

Had to assist some tourists at the L1 stop at Central trying to find a tram to Kingsford there. It made me realise the way finding is really substandard - there's no signs from the L1 stop clearly pointing the way to L2/L3, or vice versa. Just generic L's in circles which don't distinguish between the stops.

[Swift]

Substandard?? In Sydney?? Nup. refuse to accept it. Not possible. (How sone locals think -despite sampling overseas -talk about denial!).

[alleve]

Had to assist some tourists at the L1 stop at Central trying to find a tram to Kingsford there. It made me realise the way finding is really substandard - there's no signs from the L1 stop clearly pointing the way to L2/L3, or vice versa. Just generic L's in circles which don't distinguish between the stops.

There are plenty of signs and maps all over the place, and even more signs were installed as part of the Central Walk works. Wayfinding could be improved but as it is it's really not that poor. To a certain extent people are just clueless.

[boronia]

Had to assist some tourists at the L1 stop at Central trying to find a tram to Kingsford there. It made me realise the way finding is really substandard - there's no signs from the L1 stop clearly pointing the way to L2/L3, or vice versa. Just generic L's in circles which don't distinguish between the stops.

There are plenty of signs and maps all over the place, and even more signs were installed as part of the Central Walk works. Wayfinding could be improved but as it is it's really not that poor. To a certain extent people are just clueless.

The only specific reference to the L2/L3 I could find at the L1 stop is a couple of lines in small type under the "Stop Guide" map in panel on the wall. The map shows L stops at Haymarket and Chalmers St, but no indication of the services that use them.

There should be a "L2-L3, buses" way-finding sign at the top of the stairs/escalators down to Pitt St. There is good such signage around other parts of Central.

[alleve]

There are plenty of signs and maps all over the place, and even more signs were installed as part of the Central Walk works. Wayfinding could be improved but as it is it's really not that poor. To a certain extent people are just clueless.

The only specific reference to the L2/L3 I could find at the L1 stop is a couple of lines in small type under the "Stop Guide" map in panel on the wall. The map shows L stops at Haymarket and Chalmers St, but no indication of the services that use them.

There should be a "L2-L3, buses" way-finding sign at the top of the stairs/escalators down to Pitt St. There is good such signage around other parts of Central.

Except the Grand Concourse, located right next to that stop, has all the necessary signs and maps. You need only walk tens of metres in the most obvious direction from the L1 stop to find exactly where you need to go.

Also worth nothing that network maps and any directions apps (such as Trip Planner, Google Maps, etc) tell you to interchange at Chinatown, not at Central.

Not trying to say that the current wayfinding is perfect or anything, but it certainly isn't bad, anyone competent enough to travel by themselves should be able to figure it out

[Swift]

In the 70s we did it better under the L7 branding but we somehow lost our way, especially under the latest Liberal government. Thanks heaven's they're gone.

It's neither bad or particularly good. Is that acceptable these days??

[jpp42]

Except the Grand Concourse, located right next to that stop, has all the necessary signs and maps. You need only walk tens of metres in the most obvious direction from the L1 stop to find exactly where you need to go.

Also worth nothing that network maps and any directions apps (such as Trip Planner, Google Maps, etc) tell you to interchange at Chinatown, not at Central.

I think these tourists arrived by foot or train to Central, not by L1 tram, so they wouldn't be changing at Chinatown. I agree that there are signs about L1 vs L2/L3 at the Grand Concourse, but there were none in the L1 stop area itself. I noticed this when trying to direct them which way to go, once I established they needed L2.

[Linto63]

There are posters at either end of the L1 platform. Each has one with a map of the light rail network and of the streets surrounding Central with bus and tram stops shown. That would be enough for most people to work it out, but there is always a percentage of the population for whom no amount of signage will be enough.

[Swift]

What's wrong with a user friendly backlit sign or two saying L2/L3 at Chalmers St with an arrow icon next to it at the L1 stop area? Too much to ask instead of expecting everybody to do research each step?

[alleve]

I think these tourists arrived by foot or train to Central, not by L1 tram, so they wouldn't be changing at Chinatown.

Then they would have walked past maps and signs on the way to the L1 stop.

What's wrong with a user friendly backlit sign or two saying L2/L3 at Chalmers St with an arrow icon next to it at the L1 stop area? Too much to ask instead of expecting everybody to do research each step?

In much the same way people need to check what platform their train departs from instead of just walking to the closest platform and expecting to get where they need to go, people need to check what stop their tram departs from instead of just walking to the closest stop. Looking at a network map or reading signs instead of blindly walking towards the nearest light rail symbol isn't research. It's the first step of using any public transport system on the planet. I've travelled the world relying on public transport almost everywhere I've ever been, and I haven't been lost once, because I actually read the map and pay attention to signs. It's not research, it's the basics. It's especially easy now in the age of the smartphone.

[Swift]

A lot of the elderly are not smartphone savvy. Are they expected to fall behind?
The issue is an absence of adequate intuitive signage like we used to have. They used to strive for that unlike now where too much is defaulted to smartphone apps to do the lifting.
The Tories really ramped this up in their usual brutal uncaring ways. Hopefully the Minns government will try and pull back on this policy or lack of it.

[moa999]

The Tories really ramped this up in their usual brutal uncaring ways.

The amount of complete and utter bull*&- that people put on either political parties.

Gladys was obviously a card carrying illuminati, and obviously encouraged poor and misleading signage to drive the elderly crazy and into the benefit of the psychologist lobby

[alleve]

A lot of the elderly are not smartphone savvy. Are they expected to fall behind?
The issue is an absence of adequate intuitive signage like we used to have.

No to both.

You don't need a phone to get around, it just helps. I made my way around overseas in the 80s and 90s just fine.

Signage is no worse now than it was then. Central is certainly a lot easier to get around now than it was then.

[Swift]

You don't need a phone to get around, it just helps. I made my way around overseas in the 80s and 90s just fine.

That's the problem. We're no longer in the 80s and 90s.

[alleve]

You don't need a phone to get around, it just helps. I made my way around overseas in the 80s and 90s just fine.

That's the problem. We're no longer in the 80s and 90s.

If we were in the 80s and 90s, you wouldn't have a light rail to try and find.

You wouldn't have the benefit of Google Maps, you wouldn't have the benefits of elevators everywhere, and Central would be a far more difficult place to navigate because you wouldn't have the benefits of all the new signage they've added over the years and the decluttering that Central Walk provides.

Wayfinding has never been easier than right now, especially at Central. Don't delude yourself into thinking any different.

Can we end this discussion here? Signage at Central is wildly off topic

[Swift]

That's the problem. We're no longer in the 80s and 90s.

If we were in the 80s and 90s, you wouldn't have a light rail to try and find.

You wouldn't have the benefit of Google Maps, you wouldn't have the benefits of elevators everywhere, and Central would be a far more difficult place to navigate because you wouldn't have the benefits of all the new signage they've added over the years and the decluttering that Central Walk provides.

Wayfinding has never been easier than right now, especially at Central. Don't delude yourself into thinking any different.

Can we end this discussion here? Signage at Central is wildly off topic

We had L1 in the 90s. I think that's a bold claim that it's never been easier. Sure they've opened it up a bit but that doesn't mean it's overall easier. They've restricted where you can enter or exit at the suburban platforms. I find that a hinderance.
Maybe I've been deluded but it looks more chaotIc than ever to me compared to yesteryear, albeit more spacious.

[Fleet Lists]

Can we end this discussion here? Signage at Central is wildly off topic

Yes - end of this discussion.

[tonyp]

‘Jostled and pushed’: Sydney Boys High School brings forward start times in response to light rail overcrowding

A top Sydney high school has written to parents to flag a major shake-up of the school timetable in response to overcrowding and student safety issues on the city’s light rail network.
David Barwell

June 17, 2023 - 5:00AM
Telegraph, Central Sydney

A Sydney high school is taking action to address overcrowding and student safety risks on the city’s recently expanded light rail network.

Sydney Boys High School has written to parents to flag a shake-up of the school timetable in response to ongoing capacity woes on the Metro CBD & Southeast Line.

From Term 3, the school wants to move its start and finish times by five minutes to address congestion at the school’s closest tram stop, Moore Park Station.

Since the light rail opened in December 2019, principal Kim Jaggar said afternoon congestion at the Moore Park Station had been heavy – particularly on Mondays, Tuesdays and Fridays.

“There is a rush to get on trains (and) students are being jostled and pushed,” he wrote to parents.
The changes are due to come into effect in Term 3.

“There was a near miss recently involving one of our students. There is a student safety issue.

“For the possibility of increased safety for our students, we are asking for Sydney High community support for this change.”
Patronage has soared on the light rail network.

The capacity issues have been partly exacerbated by the students from the boys school packing the same trams with female pupils at the adjacent Sydney Girls High School.

Both campuses currently start the school day at the same time.

Mr Jagger said out of concern for a possible serious accident occurring, staff at the boys campus had voted to commence each day with a warning bell at 8.57am.

Lessons will start at 9am and conclude at 3.10pm each day.
Teachers at the school have supported the timetable changes.

“The change will allow our students to catch one, or possibly two trams before students from Sydney Girls High School arrive on the platform, given their finishing time is 3.20pm,” he said.

The changes come as latest figures by the Department of Transport figures reveal passenger numbers at Moore Park Station have soared in the last two years.

In May, there were 7616 students tapping on and off via Opal Cards at the station – up from 5130 in the same month last year.

Moore Park also recorded the second most number of Opal trip passengers across Sydney’s entire light rail network last month – second only to the light rail stop at Central Station.

A Department of Education spokesman in a statement confirmed the school’s timetable change had been endorsed by the school council and “received overwhelming support from teachers”.

Transdev was contacted for further comment but did not respond at the time of publication.

[Swift]

STMpainter will have a fit reading that. The principal called it a train, which is quite accurate.

[boronia]

‘Jostled and pushed’: Sydney Boys High School brings forward start times in response to light rail overcrowding

In May, there were 7616 students tapping on and off via Opal Cards at the station – up from 5130 in the same month last year.

Moore Park also recorded the second most number of Opal trip passengers across Sydney’s entire light rail network last month – second only to the light rail stop at Central Station.

A Department of Education spokesman in a statement confirmed the school’s timetable change had been endorsed by the school council and “received overwhelming support from teachers”.

7616 students per month equates to around 380 per day; one tram load. As well as the normal 4 minute service, there are supplementary shuttles to/from Central-Moore Park. Students tend to straggle out after classes, so they are not all waiting there at one time. Hard to imagine any overloading.