CBD & South East Light Rail

[Transtopic]

I assume that east-west road links crossing George St will be retained, such as Hunter-Margaret Sts and Bridge-Grosvenor Sts, similar to Park-Druitt Sts, Bathurst and Liverpool Sts.

We have this itty bitty piece of infrastructure called the Cross City Tunnel. If self entitled motorists INSIST on driving around, they can use and pay for that and stay the H out of the city they have no business disrupting the flow of. A big fat KEEP OUT should be enforced. London can do it, so can we -if it was with the times.

It's not a question of traffic travelling into the CBD as a destination, but trying to pass through it from east to west and vice versa. Part of the problem is that the Cross City Tunnel is tolled and it's a disincentive to use it when there is the free option of using Park/Druitt Sts. The options are to make it harder to use the surface routes or take over the Cross City Tunnel and abolish the toll. When I was working, I regularly used the Cross City Tunnel from Rushcutters Bay in the east to travel to the Harbour Tunnel to the north, but the tolls were a minor consideration compared with the convenience. Perhaps I just have a different mindset.

I'm getting a bit off track here, but similarly, the Western Harbour Tunnel will divert a significant amount of north-south through traffic away from the CBD, the Western Distributor, the Harbour Bridge, the Harbour Tunnel and the Eastern Distributor. Traffic trying to pass through the CBD from one side to the other in whichever direction isn't going to go away anytime soon and it has to be catered for with adequate bypasses, preferably without tolls to encourage usage.

[Linto63]

While some of the traffic is generated by vehicles passing from one side to another, there is also a fair bit where the cbd is the destination. Lovely idea as it is that vehicles traffic will just magically disappear, not realistically going to happen.

[jpp42]

When I was working, I regularly used the Cross City Tunnel from Rushcutters Bay in the east to travel to the Harbour Tunnel to the north, but the tolls were a minor consideration compared with the convenience. Perhaps I just have a different mindset

Yes, it's definitely a mindset - my partner works in Rose Bay and commutes to the inner west via Park St and ANZAC Bridge - the CCT would save her 20-30 minutes especially in the evening; sometimes it takes 30 minutes just to get from College St to George St (exacerbated by the number of scofflaws illegally using the bus lane then cutting in front of law-abiding traffic at the next intersection - something I hope bus operators could help push for better enforcement on as it also delays buses!). Anyway, she refuses to use the CCT despite my working out that we could budget for it and it would be worth the reduction in stress caused by the long commute each day. Just has a mindset that she should never pay for tolls... if the toll were moved from the CCT to a surface congestion charge, it would be hugely beneficial in shifting this kind of traffic. The CCT has huge amounts of extra capacity (although admittedly facilities it leads to like the Western/Eastern Distributors, do not).

[Swift]

Couldn't she at least treat herself twice a week? Does she drive a Prius or something, otherwise the petrol she uses would bite into the savings by quite a margin. Plus that intangible commodity called time!

[tonyp]

Yes, it's definitely a mindset - my partner works in Rose Bay and commutes to the inner west via Park St and ANZAC Bridge - the CCT would save her 20-30 minutes especially in the evening; sometimes it takes 30 minutes just to get from College St to George St (exacerbated by the number of scofflaws illegally using the bus lane then cutting in front of law-abiding traffic at the next intersection - something I hope bus operators could help push for better enforcement on as it also delays buses!). Anyway, she refuses to use the CCT despite my working out that we could budget for it and it would be worth the reduction in stress caused by the long commute each day. Just has a mindset that she should never pay for tolls... if the toll were moved from the CCT to a surface congestion charge, it would be hugely beneficial in shifting this kind of traffic. The CCT has huge amounts of extra capacity (although admittedly facilities it leads to like the Western/Eastern Distributors, do not).

Without intending to pass judgement, isn't Rose Bay to inner west a journey that should be undertaken by PT?

There was a lot of pressure in CoS council ten to twenty years ago for a congestion tax in the CBD and, associated with that, lifting the toll on the CCT. Of course, it couldn't get past state government. I remember that Morris Iemma declared that such a tax would penalise "ordinary working people" who simply wanted to get to work in the city. He must have thought that they all had reserved parking in Parliament House, like him.

[Linto63]

Fast forward to today and both the previous and incumbent premiers ruled it out in 2019 and 2022, despite it having been recommended by independent reports.

[Transtopic]

There was a lot of pressure in CoS council ten to twenty years ago for a congestion tax in the CBD and, associated with that, lifting the toll on the CCT. Of course, it couldn't get past state government. I remember that Morris Iemma declared that such a tax would penalise "ordinary working people" who simply wanted to get to work in the city. He must have thought that they all had reserved parking in Parliament House, like him.

Good point Tony. I can't see how a congestion tax would penalise "ordinary working people", if it only applied during weekday peak hours. Most, if not all, wouldn't be able to afford all day parking fees anyway. Only the wealthy or those with company cars could afford it, and even then, I suspect that some would choose public transport instead if it suits them, to avoid the hassle on the roads.

Although it was a great idea at the time, it's little wonder that the original proponents of the CCT went broke, as they hadn't factored in the resistance to tolls. It's still underutilised, which is a crying shame. Had the government of the day (Labor I think) financed the CCT, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's another example of how privatisation is not always in the public's best interest.

[lunchbox]

FAILURES....
On Wed. 19.10.22 around midday, an outbound tram stalled at Town Hall and passengers were unloaded. Trams were heading east from Central. The eastern lift at Moore Park was out of service....again.

On Friday 21.10.22 at 9am, inbound T3 trams were being terminated at Town Hall due to "signal failure". Passengers were advised to change at Town Hall to T2 trams to get to the Quay. As a certain pollie would say...."please explain".
1048944

[boronia]

FAILURES....

On Friday 21.10.22 at 9am, inbound T3 trams were being terminated at Town Hall due to "signal failure". Passengers were advised to change at Town Hall to T2 trams to get to the Quay. As a certain pollie would say...."please explain".
1048944

This problem existed as early as 07.00. TripView was showing an amended timetable with "unscheduled services" operating to Central, along with the scheduled services, also to Central only, with no mention that they had been cancelled as a result.

I caught a L3 to the city around midday on Thursday, it sat south of the TH crossovers with a red signal for about 3 minutes, before proceeding to CQ.

[boronia]

Seems a new timetable has been recently introduced for the L3 line (probably the L2 as well) with the 8 minute frequency starting earlier in the mornings and minor adjustments to times throughout the day. This is not yet shown in the TfNSW PDF timetables; it took nearly two weeks to update the L1 timetable.

Noted in "'alerts" is that L2/L3 trams will be paused at stops between 10.55 and 11.05 on Friday morning during Remembrance Day activities in Martin Place.

[rogf24]

Seems like the timetabled travel times are also back down to 31 minutes. It was 31 minutes during the 2021 lockdown but then went back up to 33 minutes after it. Now it's back again.

[Linto63]

Having been out of use for many months, the passenger information displays on the bus platforms have been returned to use at Haymarket and Juniors.

[boronia]

Some media excitement today about a "derailment" at Central.

From video and a site inspection later, a set departing the "back platform" No 3 has split the points and parts of the set taken different directions. There is no evidence of wheel marks on the roadway.

[Swift]

I wish they'd return the passenger door buttons. It'd save considerably on energy.

[Jurassic_Joke]

I wish they'd return the passenger door buttons. It'd save considerably on energy.

They did for a short while bring back passenger operated doors, in June this year. But nope, still considered too hard for the typical Sydneysider, so they reverted back to automatic doors not long after

[Swift]

Stop accommodating them and make them learn or be left behind. Enough of the coddling.
Amazing how they eventually learn if you give it enough time.

[boronia]

I wish they'd return the passenger door buttons. It'd save considerably on energy.

They did for a short while bring back passenger operated doors, in June this year. But nope, still considered too hard for the typical Sydneysider, so they reverted back to automatic doors not long after

There still seems to be a couple of drivers who put the doors onto passenger control south of Chalmers St.

[Swift]

Buy them a beer -after knock off.

[boronia]

More truncations today with "signalling repairs" required between Town Hall and Circular Quay.

[lunchbox]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^and again today, 15/12/22, with all inbound L3s terminating at Town Hall, though L2s were proceeding to the Quay. Long, unexplained delays at stops and up to 20min. between inbound trams.

[tonyp]

I don't think I've ever seen a service closure alert that includes a list of walking times up to one hour as an alternative to catching public transport!

https://transportnsw.info/news/2022/l2- ... l-closures

If they'd suggested this, then I'd give it a pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LADv8JYZncg

[boronia]

Again, no mention of bus services which operate from Chalmers St to the CBD and CQ.

[tonyp]

Again, no mention of bus services which operate from Chalmers St to the CBD and CQ.

Same with Moore Park and Kingsford. Why would you walk when there are buses there?

[Swift]

Tonyp, suggest it? We're talking Sydney here where you'd be rounded up and Seven News would be running a special report on hooligans commandeering our light rail. That video was in a country with more freedom than restictionville.

[Passenger 57]

I don't think I've ever seen a service closure alert that includes a list of walking times up to one hour as an alternative to catching public transport!

Oddly, the verbiage is walking distance. Some writer doesn't know their SI units! At least, it directs you from to the Trip Planner which chooses 20 minutes as a default for walking time and can be tickled to provide alternative transport suggestions that take varying times from five minutes to an hour to connect with public transport. It can also be tickled to make allowances for walking speed too. It doesn't look like the Trip Planner has caught up to the announcement yet as I'm still seeing trams as the main option from CQ.

Just be thankful the spin meisters didn't advertise walking as a turn up and go service (Opal transfer discount does not apply.)

Given the poor frequencies of some local bus services walking compares very well to them but certainly odd to recommend walking on a trunk route.