Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
moa999
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by moa999 »

boronia wrote:
RayW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:17 am
If you are a worker and traveling on early morning services (before 5am) and return later than 6pm, even if there were retail outlets, many of them will be closed by the time you get home. A number of newsagents I had been able to top up at, are now closed (Regents Park- 2 closed), so that makes it even harder for you.
So how do these people get cash, as the banks would be closed too?
Who uses cash these days?
Other than one food place in my area that's cash only, I haven't passed a note since Covid.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

Plenty. Just look at all the popular websites still talking about cash envelope budgeting, for example.

Then there's me - where it's used to manage areas I need to control spending in, mostly takeaway. Far too easy to mindlessly tap-tap-tap your card only to find the money has vanished.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

moa999 wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:51 am Who uses cash these days?
Other than one food place in my area that's cash only, I haven't passed a note since Covid.
You'd be surprised and it isn't just us old goats

Merc1107 wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:01 pm Plenty. Just look at all the popular websites still talking about cash envelope budgeting, for example.

Then there's me - where it's used to manage areas I need to control spending in, mostly takeaway. Far too easy to mindlessly tap-tap-tap your card only to find the money has vanished.

But to stay on topic; the subject is the actual Opal card. Apart from the stupidity of not being able to go to the window at the station, there is also the point where you forget to 'tap' off and then to find you've lost double the fare the next day.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

RayW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:11 am
boronia wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:23 am
So how do these people get cash, as the banks would be closed too?
I don't know about single people in my position, but for me, the Missus takes care of that on Friday after my pay goes through.
Right, so wherever there is a bank open, there should be an Opal retailer nearby and she could top up a card at the same time. Get 2 Opal cards and alternate their use week about.
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

RayW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:31 pm
But to stay on topic; the subject is the actual Opal card. Apart from the stupidity of not being able to go to the window at the station, there is also the point where you forget to 'tap' off and then to find you've lost double the fare the next day.
Opal has been around long enough now to get used to the process. If you forget, you've got to wear the consequences, don't blame the system.

You don't get charged double, you just pay the fare for the remainder of that trip.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

boronia wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:38 pm
RayW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:31 pm
But to stay on topic; the subject is the actual Opal card. Apart from the stupidity of not being able to go to the window at the station, there is also the point where you forget to 'tap' off and then to find you've lost double the fare the next day.
Opal has been around long enough now to get used to the process. If you forget, you've got to wear the consequences, don't blame the system.

You don't get charged double, you just pay the fare for the remainder of that trip.
At 71 mate I think I'm allowed to be forgetful now and then. And no, when you tap on again, you do actually lose. As for getting two cards, how absurd.
But, this doesn't actually affect me directly, as my wife and I often take trips on weekends, we top up then at Clyde that does have a cash machine. My point is for those poor sods who are in the position I have been speaking of.

Solution: Wouldn't it be easier for the station staff to attend the window as they should be?
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

At 71, wouldn't you be using a Gold card with a $2.50 cap?

For someone who can't get to a bank or cash sales point during business hours, but has a partner who can, what is absurd about having two cards? You use one while the other is being topped up with another weeks worth of value.

Just a general observation, I acknowledge that some people have restricting circumstances.

I guess at stations, they have to pay staff extra to handle cash and tickets; they have to pay someone (a security company) to collect the cash and bank it; this would work out very expensive for the small amounts involved these days.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Randomness »

boronia wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:32 pm
RayW wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:11 am

I don't know about single people in my position, but for me, the Missus takes care of that on Friday after my pay goes through.
Right, so wherever there is a bank open, there should be an Opal retailer nearby and she could top up a card at the same time. Get 2 Opal cards and alternate their use week about.
There’s an option to link Opal and credit cards in the Opal Travel app isn’t there? It would be useful for the ones that forget or don’t have the opportunity to top up.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

I think this discussion relates to problems for people who don't have credit cards (there are a few abstainers).
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

I used to just call Opal when I messed up and got it sorted quickly. That was when Opal was quite new though.
It's in your interest to get the muscle memory to tap off each time. There's always a down side to a system but the overall upside is greater with Opal.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

boronia wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:50 pm At 71, wouldn't you be using a Gold card with a $2.50 cap?

For someone who can't get to a bank or cash sales point during business hours, but has a partner who can, what is absurd about having two cards? You use one while the other is being topped up with another weeks worth of value.

Just a general observation, I acknowledge that some people have restricting circumstances.

I guess at stations, they have to pay staff extra to handle cash and tickets; they have to pay someone (a security company) to collect the cash and bank it; this would work out very expensive for the small amounts involved these days.
Still working here. The system they had in place prior to Opal worked fine, as they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

boronia wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:58 pm I think this discussion relates to problems for people who don't have credit cards (there are a few abstainers).
We have four adult kids, three of them have ditched their credit cards. Life in the credit lane was costing them and with today's high cost of living that is one more expense they don't need. Our youngest girl, in the Air Force and though it is almost mandatory for her to have a mobile phone, she won't use it (supplied to her). She'll check incoming calls and return the call when she can on a landline. But that is a different issue not for here.

In essence, to us at least, Opal is a pita.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by matthewg »

RayW wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:01 am

We have four adult kids, three of them have ditched their credit cards.
In essence, to us at least, Opal is a pita.
I don't have a credit card. I have not actually used my Opal card in over a year, despite nearly daily train travel. I've been using Google Pay linked to a Debit card.
You don't have to get credit to get contactless payments.
I can understand not wanting the 'convenience' of a 'charge card' as for some it makes it too easy to spend money.

A nieces boyfriend works for one of those new wave banking providers - they have a card/app combo just for that market where the balance is updated in near real-time to the app, the available balance is 'drip fed' at a nominated rate to the available balance of the transaction account. To help those who have difficulty tracking their spending when it's anonymous tapping of plastic. You set a daily spend and have to keep under it,
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

matthewg wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:16 am

I don't have a credit card. I have not actually used my Opal card in over a year, despite nearly daily train travel. I've been using Google Pay linked to a Debit card.
You don't have to get credit to get contactless payments.
I can understand not wanting the 'convenience' of a 'charge card' as for some it makes it too easy to spend money.

A nieces boyfriend works for one of those new wave banking providers - they have a card/app combo just for that market where the balance is updated in near real-time to the app, the available balance is 'drip fed' at a nominated rate to the available balance of the transaction account. To help those who have difficulty tracking their spending when it's anonymous tapping of plastic. You set a daily spend and have to keep under it,
I don't have a mobile phone, never have, never will. I prefer life to be simple and uncomplicated.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by matthewg »

RayW wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:28 am
I don't have a mobile phone, never have, never will. I prefer life to be simple and uncomplicated.
But you are on this website complaining about complexity :-). Have you found an RSP that will take cash to pay for your internet access ? Get paid in cash and keep your savings in a biscuit tin under the bed?

We link all sorts of things to our bank accounts these days anyway. My employer will not pay in cash or even cheque. If you don't have a bank account you don't get paid :-(

That bank account can be used either directly via a debit card or linked to an Opal card for auto-top up. My pay goes in, my living expenses (groceries and transport) go out:-)
I am fortunate that what goes in is greater than what needs to go out.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

matthewg wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:14 am

But you are on this website complaining about complexity :-). Have you found an RSP that will take cash to pay for your internet access ? Get paid in cash and keep your savings in a biscuit tin under the bed?

We link all sorts of things to our bank accounts these days anyway. My employer will not pay in cash or even cheque. If you don't have a bank account you don't get paid :-(

That bank account can be used either directly via a debit card or linked to an Opal card for auto-top up. My pay goes in, my living expenses (groceries and transport) go out:-)
I am fortunate that what goes in is greater than what needs to go out.
We're getting off topic I'm afraid. I will say this, the computer I use is at work; I don't own one myself.

Back to the Opal.

I noticed recently on one of Michael Portillo's Great British Rail Journeys, they have something similar to Opal on the London network; yet they still had working ticket booths.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Aurora »

We had grades of salespeople they wanted to get rid of, that is why Opal had to have no ticket window selling.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

Sydney only likes to be advanced when it saves money and damned the people who get put out.
London seems to be less like that and more willing to be traditional.
When you have Liberals in, they are all too willing to put out a whole section of people and discard traditional ways of doing things. They like to change everything.
Unfortunately we don't have another Whitlam to force Labor to do an about face and actually be a half decent administration like Wran's was.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Linto63 »

The world has moved on from the days of having ticket offices. London may have retained manned ticket booths for a while, but many have now gone. Nice to look back to the good old days, but the world has moved on and with the majority of passengers purchasing their tickets off station, there is no need for manned ticket windows anymore.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

Swift wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:44 pm Sydney only likes to be advanced when it saves money and damned the people who get put out.
London seems to be less like that and more willing to be traditional.
When you have Liberals in, they are all too willing to put out a whole section of people and discard traditional ways of doing things. They like to change everything.
Unfortunately we don't have another Whitlam to force Labor to do an about face and actually be a half decent administration like Wran's was.
Thank you. Although my family is traditionally conservative, I don't think in my memory a Liberal led NSW Government has ever been able to provide us with a decent service. Look at the XPT's, while they are okay, they are so out of date at now 40 years old.

I digress. Ticketing, when I or my family wish to travel on a train, logic tells me you should go to the station to purchase your ticket. A case in point, you can no longer buy a ticket for either intra or interstate travel. You can haul your backside off to Central and buy it over the counter there; otherwise its 'online' for the trendy.
Last edited by RayW on Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by moa999 »

I would say service going online has 'trended'.

Whether it's government, banking, even takeaway food. No different to transport.

I'm sometimes surprised that we ever managed to get rid of steam engines in NSW, Afterall would have been plenty of Stoker's who lost their jobs.

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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Passenger 57 »

At least RayW is in a position to use Opal and has enough cash flow for the minimum in-person top up amounts required these days which is $20 for an Adult card. If you find yourself in a position with no cards and less than $20 there is no way for you to legally ride on a bus AFAIK and you get doubly screwed with higher Opal single ticketing pricing and its lack of Opal benefits esp. the transfer rebate. Even if you do have $20 good luck finding an Opal card after retail outlets have closed. Admittedly, the lower security of a disposable card, the byzantine Opal fare rules and in particular the lack of full fare integration make a comparable disposable ticket infeasible. Meanwhile, there are no issuing fees for Opal cards and the only additional cost to the user is the opportunity cost of the cash float given to the NSW government. Realistically, the only option if you have less than $20 is to fare evade which will get you into a lot of trouble if you repeatedly get caught and fined and can't pay the fine. If you do need to do so repeatedly you are probably eligible for welfare and an Opal Gold card or help from a charity. But people fall through the cracks and charities can't help everybody.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by RayW »

Passenger 57 wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:21 pm At least RayW is in a position to use Opal and has enough cash flow for the minimum in-person top up amounts required these days which is $20 for an Adult card. If you find yourself in a position with no cards and less than $20 there is no way for you to legally ride on a bus AFAIK and you get doubly screwed with higher Opal single ticketing pricing and its lack of Opal benefits esp. the transfer rebate. Even if you do have $20 good luck finding an Opal card after retail outlets have closed. Admittedly, the lower security of a disposable card, the byzantine Opal fare rules and in particular the lack of full fare integration make a comparable disposable ticket infeasible. Meanwhile, there are no issuing fees for Opal cards and the only additional cost to the user is the opportunity cost of the cash float given to the NSW government. Realistically, the only option if you have less than $20 is to fare evade which will get you into a lot of trouble if you repeatedly get caught and fined and can't pay the fine. If you do need to do so repeatedly you are probably eligible for welfare and an Opal Gold card or help from a charity. But people fall through the cracks and charities can't help everybody.
Barely, one wage between two doesn't go far in Sydney these days and it isn't a very high hourly rate either. Having the wife on a Gold card does help though. I do however totally agree with you, time and time again I've seen people both young and old go up to a machine and wish to just put on $10. The situation is totally absurd.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by mattyc »

How is this thread still taking about cash and top ups. It’s 2022 people, use a bank card to tap on and off. Simple. Cash is dying - it’s extremely expensive to maintain (not only from a logistics perspective but also business insurance).

And don’t give me the usual ‘technology’ complaint - every generation goes through it. Think about B&W television to colour, records to CD’s, VHS to DVD’s. The old fuddy-duddy rhetoric just doesn’t cut it.

If you’re not willing to keep up technology, you’ll get left behind. Simple.

I haven’t used an Opal card for years - just tapping my phone on and off, never had a single fare issue and always made my trains.

I know I’ll get flamed down for this post, but just saying it as it is. It’s 2022, technology is king, adapt or get left behind.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

You can't encourage a new generation of people to phase out from Opal cards, if you do not provide an option to deduct child fares from a parent's debit card for example
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