Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Merc1107
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

Perhaps the policy has been dropped (so the knuckle draggers have won)... Ask to see concession, get shown a fist instead.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boxythingy »

Perhaps there needs to be more upfront communications targeted to both parents and school aged students that you can not expect to be welcomed on board and will be left behind if you can't tap on with either your School OR Child Opal OR Contactless method payment, like how everyone else taps on with Adult, concession etc cards, cre/debit card linked smart watch or phone or device.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:38 pm Four transit officers watching people come through the barriers at Town Hall this morning. Wonder how many fare evaders they caught? Would have been more productive if they did dome checks on some of the bus routes that they never bother doing.
I boarded on at my usual station this morning (for privacy reasons won't mention which) however the Opal readers were closed, I misread somewhere and thought the opal readers would still be turned on HOWEVER by tapping on & off at the train station readers your card won't be charged for the next 5 days while travel is free, a call to opal cleared this up that the readers will be off for 5 days.

Get to the Terminus Newcastle Interchange and all the gates are open but the opal barriers are turned on, apparently a few commuters for whatever reason still tapped on when they didn't need too (So later would've gotten charged the fee). Finished work back to the Interchange this afternoon and the gates are open however this time the opal barrier is turned off.

Didn't see a Transit Officer all day and usually the police are frequently around the Interchange around 3:40 PM.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by ScaniaGrenda »

boxythingy wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:38 pm Perhaps there needs to be more upfront communications targeted to both parents and school aged students that you can not expect to be welcomed on board and will be left behind if you can't tap on with either your School OR Child Opal OR Contactless method payment, like how everyone else taps on with Adult, concession etc cards, cre/debit card linked smart watch or phone or device.
Except I'm pretty sure there's a "No child left behind" policy (I know there one in Queensland after the Daniel Morcombe case years and years ago). I've been on plenty of public transportation where school students are onboard and Transit officers / Police have eventually boarded and not one has ever approached a school student to see if their carrying their school opal concession and have tapped on. I'd say the school card should just be scrapped and let school children (as long as their in school uniform) ride the school buses free. Chasing up a fare from a school aged student if their getting home or to school isn't worth the hassle.

However with this said, I am for and against that, as they do get "free" travel when heading to and from school (From school to home obviously) they should be required to give up their seat when asked for a full fare paying passenger or the less abled and if their disruptive and noisy like the lot on a certain train I frequently catch then AO's should have the power to terminate their concession. Back in my schooling days we were warned both by Police & the School that if we misued our concession or caused trouble our concession entitlement would be terminated, not sure why just a couple of years later the next lot of students are getting a "pass" if their being disruptive or going against the terms of their concession entitlement.
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Swift wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:07 pm Because it's easier work for them I guess.

I caught my first Busways service on the central coast in a while last weekend and observed quite a few school age passengers without cards requesting a free ride from the driver as "it's only down the road" or "I gotta get home" and being granted them. Why don't they go into a shop and ask for free food that way? Oh but it's only a bus ride, totally different.
Busways did have a strict policy of seeing passes before giving a concession fare, but now this is out the window now? Just let the freeloaders (thieves) on no questions asked?
A lot of drivers don't even bother calling back passengers when the opal insufficient funds warning goes off whitch is basically the tap again chime with the console alarm that alerts the driver of a system error
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

It is not a driver's role to police potential fare evasion; nor do they have any legal authority to do so.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

boronia wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:13 pm It is not a driver's role to police potential fare evasion; nor do they have any legal authority to do so.
Isn't it up to the passenger to make sure that they have the funds on their Opal for a fare before they travel then the issue is do people actually pay attention to how much they have on their Opal and do they have a point before low balance where they think about topping up
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Randomness »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:38 pm Would have been more productive if they did dome checks on some of the bus routes that they never bother doing.
I'm fairly sure FPOs are employed by bus operators and not TfNSW. Probably could've moved to buses in STA days but that's long gone now.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Linto63 »

Revenue protection is the responsibility of TfNSW, not the operators, hence RPOs all have the same uniforms. Appreciate that it is a government department and thinking outside the box is frowned upon, but surely with no rail fares to check, they should be redeployed to buses, ferries and trams rather than just standing at ticket barriers doing nothing. Have seen this at a few stations now, yesterday at Wollongong there was a team there in the morning and when I left four hours later, they were still there. Or alternatively just give them the week off.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

The RPOs on the the trams wear Transdev uniforms, so presumably they are employees. I'm sure I've seen operator specific RPOs on buses as well.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Aren't the RPOs also responsible for enforcing other breaches of the Transport Acts, like drinking, feet on seats, etc? Perhaps they should be deployed into those duties.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Swift »

It isn't working, people treating the trains as their lounge room, bathroom (doing makeup) and their bedroom (sleeping across the bench) like foul uncivilized animals is rife. No wonder Japan thinks they're superior. They certainly behave consistent with that.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

I've seen RPOs at Liverpool station checking opals as passengers alight from buses it's like they are post alighting funds checking
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by pgt »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:36 am I've seen RPOs at Liverpool station checking opals as passengers alight from buses it's like they are post alighting funds checking
While not recent, I have seen this previously at places like Wynyard and Neutral Bay where they're checking for a valid tap on and off for the service they're checking, and moreover one that is only just tapped off.

If they're anything like some people I've seen recently, they tap on an Opal card with insufficient funds and just walk through, or in a couple of cases they tap off far earlier than their intended stop - I'd say this is the sort of behaviour the RPOs would be looking for since neither would have a valid ticket for the stop they're getting off at as such.
(No different to the old Travelten days where people would use a 1-2 section ticket to cross the harbour bridge... which the way it's setup requires at least a 3-5 section ticket regardless of which route you take).
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Are operators allowed to asign buses with a malfunctioning Opal readers to a driver for a shift
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Aurora »

I would say generally operators are required under the contract to operate Opal enabled buses on their contracted services. Unless there is a fault that happens in-service, they might be in breach.

I don’t think they would necessarily cancel a service just because the Opal equipment is not working. I have been on a small handful of trips over the years where the Opal readers were not working.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Aurora wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:11 am I would say generally operators are required under the contract to operate Opal enabled buses on their contracted services. Unless there is a fault that happens in-service, they might be in breach.

I don’t think they would necessarily cancel a service just because the Opal equipment is not working. I have been on a small handful of trips over the years where the Opal readers were not working.
Would the opal readers not working be something to do with the readers themselves or would it be due to a driver console issue that would tell the readers to not activate
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Fleet Lists »

Could be either of those or any other fault in the equipment.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by In Transit »

Aurora wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:11 am I would say generally operators are required under the contract to operate Opal enabled buses on their contracted services. Unless there is a fault that happens in-service, they might be in breach.

I don’t think they would necessarily cancel a service just because the Opal equipment is not working. I have been on a small handful of trips over the years where the Opal readers were not working.
I've had a couple of recent days where more than half of my trips on the day didn't' have Opal working. At a time when PT fare revenue is well down on pre Covid, its a shame to have a standing load on an artic riding free...
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

In Transit wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:19 pm
Aurora wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:11 am I would say generally operators are required under the contract to operate Opal enabled buses on their contracted services. Unless there is a fault that happens in-service, they might be in breach.

I don’t think they would necessarily cancel a service just because the Opal equipment is not working. I have been on a small handful of trips over the years where the Opal readers were not working.
I've had a couple of recent days where more than half of my trips on the day didn't' have Opal working. At a time when PT fare revenue is well down on pre Covid, its a shame to have a standing load on an artic riding free...
The revenue issue gets worse when when the government had to temporarily cut off the Opal revenue from the rail network to stop the RTBU from pulling 3 quarters of the rail rolling stock out of service becauce of where that rolling stock where built
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Passenger 57 »

Can RPOs actually do anything without the cooperation of passengers without the assistance of police?
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Passenger 57 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:38 pm Can RPOs actually do anything without the cooperation of passengers without the assistance of police?
AFIK, No, you can refuse to give information to an RPO, they cannot even forcibly "detain" you.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Linto63 »

In Transit wrote: I've had a couple of recent days where more than half of my trips on the day didn't' have Opal working.
Concur that all or at least some machines not working has become increasingly common on buses in recent months. Mid-trip failures have become more common, brassing passengers off by not allowing them to tap off and being charged the default fare.
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by Merc1107 »

That tends to sound like there is either an issue with faulty equipment effectively being swapped between the "spares rack" (i.e. faulty equipment can usually be connected up for testing) in the depot and various buses, or an issue related to finding replacements (either new units are not available, faulty units aren't being put aside from repair/replacement, or perhaps both). It's certainly frustrating when the spares pool are just duds retrieved from other buses.

To answer another user's question about taking out buses with defective equipment, I believe Sydney uses a Wayfarer/Parkeon ETIM like Perth. On those, while there is some indication of issues like GPS lock (which will prevent tapping on/off unless manually overriden) or communications issues with the validators, if the validators themselves are simply finicky, you won't find out until it's too late that they don't function. While ticketing faults can delay a bus and decrease the reliability of trip statistics, they're considered a low-priority fault; after all, a bus without functional ticketing equipment can still physically service a route. A bus with a serious mechanical issue cannot. Also, nitpicky issues like ticketing are occasionally used by some drivers to try for a "better bus", where they've been given something they don't like driving.
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boronia
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Re: Opal Discussion and Observations

Post by boronia »

Back in the STA and "Green Reader" days, I recall District Inspectors carried a stock of spare readers and consoles in their vans. In the event of a fault/failure, replacements were quickly bought to the bus and exchanged where necessary. Has this service carried over to Opal equipment?
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