Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

Going by planning in the west/NW, the preferred method of crossing flood plains is by viaduct.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Transtopic »

tonyp wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:01 pm Going by planning in the west/NW, the preferred method of crossing flood plains is by viaduct.
That's true. It is an option, but location of stations at ground level without the risk of inundation could still be an issue. Probably why the original Bankstown Line didn't continue direct to Liverpool and skirted around the flood plain. Just saying.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

Transtopic wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:52 pm That's true. It is an option, but location of stations at ground level without the risk of inundation could still be an issue. Probably why the original Bankstown Line didn't continue direct to Liverpool and skirted around the flood plain. Just saying.
Stations on lines on viaduct would be on the Circular Quay model - like Rouse Hill etc.

Image
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21566
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by boronia »

A giant cavern beneath Barangaroo is about to bridge gaps to greater Sydney

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/a-g ... 5blwt.html
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21566
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by boronia »

Rail Express is quoting that 20 of the 23 additional metro trains for the South West line have been delivered, and 4 are already in service on the NW line.

Trip numbers are at around 1.5-1.6 million per month. By comparison, the L2/L3 light rail are at just under 2 million
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

Part of Central Walk between platforms 16 and 23 to open on Sunday

Major new underground concourse opens at Sydney’s Central Station (Sydney Morning Herald)
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by tonyp »

Kellyville Metro Station precinct plan now approved.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newsl ... f7a446035b

Image
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

New footbridge has opened at the northern end of Sydenham, albeit only between platforms 3 to 6, with lifts and street entrances yet to open. The metro platforms at Sydenham have been built to the north of the existing curved platforms so little provision for direct transfer. Not that there is likely to be that much cross platform interchange between westbound metro from platform 2 and northbound T4 or T8 services from platform 3, most interchanges will be in the same direction of travel, hence the overbridge.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Transtopic »

Linto63 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:48 pm New footbridge has opened at the northern end of Sydenham, albeit only between platforms 3 to 6, with lifts and street entrances yet to open. The metro platforms at Sydenham have been built to the north of the existing curved platforms so little provision for direct transfer. Not that there is likely to be that much cross platform interchange between westbound metro from platform 2 and northbound T4 or T8 services from platform 3, most interchanges will be in the same direction of travel, hence the overbridge.
As things stand, there's unlikely to be any interchange between the metro and T4 and T8 at Sydenham. All T4 services will run via the Illawarra Main through platforms 5 & 6 and all T8 services will run via the Airport Line to Central. The only services which will run on the Local through platforms 3 & 4 will be SCO Intercity, Southern Regional Trains and possibly future SHL Intercity through to Sydney Terminal, where interchange can take place. There's no guarantee that any of those services will actually stop at Sydenham. The Illawarra Local will be grossly underutilised, but it does leave open the option of additional express T8 services to Sydney Terminal via Sydenham in the future if the Airport Line reaches its full capacity of 24tph with the digital upgrades.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

Transtopic wrote: All T4 services will run via the Illawarra Main through platforms 5 & 6 and all T8 services will run via the Airport Line to Central.
IIRC there was a suggestion that the all stops Hurstville terminators may operate via the Illawarra local and travel via the City Circle in lieu of the Eastern Suburbs line. Some peak-hour T8 services operate via Sydenham platforms 3 & 4.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Transtopic »

Linto63 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:46 pm
Transtopic wrote: All T4 services will run via the Illawarra Main through platforms 5 & 6 and all T8 services will run via the Airport Line to Central.
IIRC there was a suggestion that the all stops Hurstville terminators may operate via the Illawarra local and travel via the City Circle in lieu of the Eastern Suburbs line. Some peak-hour T8 services operate via Sydenham platforms 3 & 4.
No, that's not correct. After the Bankstown Line is converted to metro and the Hurstville crossover project is implemented, the Hurstville terminators will switch to the Illawarra Main (eastern track pair) straight through to the ESR. They currently travel on the Local, crossing to the Main at Wolli Creek. The Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express services will in turn switch to the Local in place of the Hurstville terminators, again crossing to the Main at Wolli Creek to Bondi Junction. SCO Intercity services will also switch from the Main to the Local at Hurstville and travel directly to Sydney Terminal via the new Erskineville crossovers and Illawarra Dive through Redfern instead of Bondi Junction.

Some peak-hour T8 services do currently operate via the Local through Sydenham platforms 3 & 4, but the plan is for all T8 services to operate via the Airport Line to the City Circle. The existing signalling on the Airport Line is being upgraded to allow 18tph (currently 10tph), as well as power upgrades. T2 and T8 via the Airport Line will become a continuous line through the City Circle.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by moa999 »


Linto63 wrote:New footbridge has opened at the northern end of Sydenham, albeit only between platforms 3 to 6, with lifts and street entrances yet to open. L
How bizarre to only half open, having been practically complete for months.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

Transtopic wrote: T2 and T8 via the Airport Line will become a continuous line through the City Circle.
Already operates that way.
Aurora
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C set
Location: Sydney Reg 3

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Aurora »

Not always, some T8 services operate via Sydenham and some T2 services become Bankstown services at various times.
An asset of NSW. All opinions/comments are strictly my own.
M 5885.
User avatar
Campbelltown busboy
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Aurora wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:48 am Not always, some T8 services operate via Sydenham and some T2 services become Bankstown services at various times.
Those sector 2 T2,T3,T8 rosters are Macarthur-city via airport city-Leppington via Granville Leppington-city via Granville city-Lidcombe via Bankstown and city-Macarthur via airport then it does the same services until the late hours of the night but there are those peak services that run via Sydenham
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by jpp42 »

<< SCO Intercity services will also switch from the Main to the Local at Hurstville and travel directly to Sydney Terminal via the new Erskineville crossovers and Illawarra Dive through Redfern instead of Bondi Junction. >>

Does this mean they will no longer stop at Wolli Creek? That's awkward for people from the South Coast coming to the airport - the Wolli Creek transfer is quite popular. Especially if they will go to Sydney Terminal which is a longer transfer to the Airport Line at that end.

The real stupidity was ever building Wolli Creek with fewer than 4 platforms... but there seems to be no interest in rectifying this, and it's getting harder and harder as more and more towers build right up against the RoW in that area.
User avatar
Campbelltown busboy
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

jpp42 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:12 pm << SCO Intercity services will also switch from the Main to the Local at Hurstville and travel directly to Sydney Terminal via the new Erskineville crossovers and Illawarra Dive through Redfern instead of Bondi Junction. >>

Does this mean they will no longer stop at Wolli Creek? That's awkward for people from the South Coast coming to the airport - the Wolli Creek transfer is quite popular. Especially if they will go to Sydney Terminal which is a longer transfer to the Airport Line at that end.

The real stupidity was ever building Wolli Creek with fewer than 4 platforms... but there seems to be no interest in rectifying this, and it's getting harder and harder as more and more towers build right up against the RoW in that area.
The airport line would had been one of the things that had to be built in time for the 2000 Olympics. Would they have been thinking of how many platforms to put at Wolli Creek at the time as they would of had a deadline of mid 2000 so the line would be ready in time for the Olympics
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by jpp42 »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:50 pm The airport line would had been one of the things that had to be built in time for the 2000 Olympics. Would they have been thinking of how many platforms to put at Wolli Creek at the time as they would of had a deadline of mid 2000 so the line would be ready in time for the Olympics
Sure, but there could have at least been future provision, protected right of way, etc. It's a constrained area with the Cooks River adjacent, and not having any sort of future plan, but at the same time selling all of the adjacent land for apartment blocks, is pretty short-sighted.
User avatar
Campbelltown busboy
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

jpp42 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:04 pm
Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:50 pm The airport line would had been one of the things that had to be built in time for the 2000 Olympics. Would they have been thinking of how many platforms to put at Wolli Creek at the time as they would of had a deadline of mid 2000 so the line would be ready in time for the Olympics
Sure, but there could have at least been future provision, protected right of way, etc. It's a constrained area with the Cooks River adjacent, and not having any sort of future plan, but at the same time selling all of the adjacent land for apartment blocks, is pretty short-sighted.
You could say that there should be another way for freight from the south coast to get to Botany
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

That it has taken 25 years for the lack of platforms on the relief line at Wolli Creek is telling. Had they built, would probably been a bit of a white elephant.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Transtopic »

jpp42 wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:04 pm
Campbelltown busboy wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:50 pm The airport line would had been one of the things that had to be built in time for the 2000 Olympics. Would they have been thinking of how many platforms to put at Wolli Creek at the time as they would of had a deadline of mid 2000 so the line would be ready in time for the Olympics
Sure, but there could have at least been future provision, protected right of way, etc. It's a constrained area with the Cooks River adjacent, and not having any sort of future plan, but at the same time selling all of the adjacent land for apartment blocks, is pretty short-sighted.
From memory, I don't think that a station was proposed at Wolli Creek in the original design by the private consortium building the line. They had designed the project with the bare minimum of stations to supposedly make it viable, but as we know it still turned out to be a financial disaster because of the station surcharges. You only have to look at the exponential increase in patronage at Green Square and Mascot when the government took over responsibility for the surcharges, compensating the bankers who took over the project from the original consortium when it failed. I can't understand why they haven't done the same thing with the two airport stations, when they would come out in front with the extra patronage. It would obviously require an increase in services to reduce overcrowding, which is what is now being done with the upgrades to the Airport Line and redirection of all T8 services.

Had the government, or Railcorp at the time, designed the line then it should have also had stations at Redfern, Waterloo and Wolli Creek. Hooking it up to the City Circle was also another short sighted decision when it should have been extended into the CBD to a temporary terminus with provision for a future extension across the harbour. This is a direct consequence of allowing the private sector to dictate the design of extensions to the rail network, and governments naively going along with it, when it should be the reverse.

It is my understanding that the current Wolli Creek station was an afterthought to allow interchange with the T4 Line and was funded by the government, although I'm not sure if the private consortium made any contribution. To the best of my recollection, all T4 and SCO services ran via the Illawarra Main to Bondi Junction and hence why platforms were only built on the Main, interchanging with the Airport Line platforms. From previous discussions, it would appear that it would be a challenge to build additional platforms on the Illawarra Local because of the constricted space. The only services which will use the Local through Wolli Creek will be the SCO Intercity, which will be redirected to Sydney Terminal instead of Bondi Junction after conversion of the Bankstown Line to metro is completed.

For those SCO passengers wishing to access the Airport Line and the airport stations in particular, they will now have to interchange at Hurstville on platform 4 to the following Cronulla/Waterfall semi-express service to Wolli Creek and interchange again to the Airport Line. It's debatable whether it would be worth building additional platforms at Wolli Creek on the Local, assuming it is even feasible.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Linto63 »

Transtopic wrote: I can't understand why they haven't done the same thing with the two airport stations, when they would come out in front with the extra patronage.
At the time the surcharge was removed at Green Square and Mascot in 2011 it cost $4 million, to do so at the airport would have cost $40 million.

Train fares to fall at two stations (Sydney Morning Herald)

Since then as part of the winding down of the PFI, the majority of the surcharge flows to the treasury. So it remains because the government like the revenue.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21566
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by boronia »

The conversation seems to be drifting away from the Metro.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Fleet Lists »

Yes - back to Metro [please.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Campbelltown busboy
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:23 pm
Location: Ruse/Campbelltown City NSW

Re: Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Why did the Parramatta-Chatswood rail link become the north west rail link and was the originally idea behind the north west metro
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”