Sydney Metro - Tallawong to Bankstown

[pgt]

So next year when Sydney Metro to Sydenham operations begin, T4 services will stop at platforms 3 and 4 at both Erskineville and St Peters. What will happen to services that currently stop at Platforms 1 and 2?

It all depends on when Bankstown line shuts down, until then you would expect T3 services to operate as is. Not sure if they will still enforce those stops on T4 services (you would hope not) until such time as that occurs.

Can't imagine any changes to T4 services until anything is changed with T3 services (the original plan was for the metro line to have been completed to Bankstown, thus removing T3 services from that part of the network which would have then allowed for T4 services, but that's not the case at this point).

I seem to recall one of the options (or was it The Plan?) for T4 trains was to "transpose" the express and local services such that express uses the Illawarra Local lines (basically trains departing platforms 1 & 2 from Hurstville - the ones that don't have a platform at Wolli Creek) and local/all stops use the Illawarra [Main] (platforms 3 & 4 from Hurstville) - for which I suspect this would need the paths freed up by the removal of T3 trains at Sydenham.
As for Erskineville and St Peters, I think that same plan would have seen the return of some Illawarra line services stopping at Erskineville and St Peters, in a similar vein to how they more or less took over the East Hills line services out of Tempe.
Guessing a handful of T8 peak trains would still travel via Sydenham as they do now, so those paths still need to be kept free if so.

[Transtopic]

So next year when Sydney Metro to Sydenham operations begin, T4 services will stop at platforms 3 and 4 at both Erskineville and St Peters. What will happen to services that currently stop at Platforms 1 and 2?

It all depends on when Bankstown line shuts down, until then you would expect T3 services to operate as is. Not sure if they will still enforce those stops on T4 services (you would hope not) until such time as that occurs.

Can't imagine any changes to T4 services until anything is changed with T3 services (the original plan was for the metro line to have been completed to Bankstown, thus removing T3 services from that part of the network which would have then allowed for T4 services, but that's not the case at this point).

I seem to recall one of the options (or was it The Plan?) for T4 trains was to "transpose" the express and local services such that express uses the Illawarra Local lines (basically trains departing platforms 1 & 2 from Hurstville - the ones that don't have a platform at Wolli Creek) and local/all stops use the Illawarra [Main] (platforms 3 & 4 from Hurstville) - for which I suspect this would need the paths freed up by the removal of T3 trains at Sydenham.
As for Erskineville and St Peters, I think that same plan would have seen the return of some Illawarra line services stopping at Erskineville and St Peters, in a similar vein to how they more or less took over the East Hills line services out of Tempe.
Guessing a handful of T8 peak trains would still travel via Sydenham as they do now, so those paths still need to be kept free if so.

I agree that T3 services will continue to operate as they do currently until the Bankstown Line is shut down for final metro conversion and commissioning. Bus replacements will operate on the Bankstown Line to and from Sydenham until the metro begins operation on that sector.

The peak hour T8 services via Sydenham will also most likely continue until the signalling and power upgrades on the Airport Line are completed to allow all peak hour T8 services to run via the Airport Line to the City Circle. I believe that the T8 services via Sydenham in the peak currently alternate stopping at St Peters and Erskineville, shared with the all stations T3 services on the Local through platforms 3 and 4. Not sure what the status is of the Airport Line upgrade.

As for T4 services, it again depends on the removal of T3 and T8 services from the Local and completion of the Airport Line upgrade. "The Plan" for T4 and SCO Intercity services is to swap the current express and local all stations services between the Illawarra Main and Local tracks at Hurstville as you mentioned. The Hurstville all stations services to Bondi Junction will operate from platforms 3 and 4 (the Main) and the Cronulla/Waterfall and SCO services will operate from platforms 1 and 2 (the Local). The Cronulla/Waterfall express services will cross from the Local to the Main south of Wolli Creek Station, merging with the Hurstville services, in a most likely all stations pattern to Bondi Junction. This could potentially provide a frequency of 24tph in the peak for all stations from Wolli Creek to Bondi Junction with the proposed digital signalling upgrades.

SCO Intercity services will no longer run to Bondi Junction and instead will continue on the Local to the new Erskineville crossovers, where they will cross to the Illawarra Dive and Sydney Terminal. There will also no longer be any suburban services running on the Local via Sydenham (platforms 3 and 4).

The Local will be underutilised with only SCO, and potentially SHL Intercity, and South Regional services using it to Sydney Terminal via the Illawarra Dive. If the Airport Line can't be upgraded further to 24tph with the digital signalling upgrade, then there would still be the option to run more T8 services via Sydenham to the City Circle. If the Airport Line can be upgraded further to 24tph for all T8 services, then the Illawarra Local and Main from Erskineville Junction to Central will virtually become redundant, although they would most likely be retained for trackwork and emergency diversions.

[lunchbox]

ALERT
Public comment on the Metro Corporate Plan closes this Tuesday, 20 June.

[boronia]

I noticed a metro set in the Sydenham stabling yards this afternoon.

[alleve]

I noticed a metro set in the Sydenham stabling yards this afternoon.

There's been one or two in the yards for a few weeks now

[Swift]

Time to peel off the plastic film soon.

[Swift]

500 hours of testing. Another Brit in charge as usual. We apparently are incapable of managing a Metro.
https://youtu.be/b2K9lZiQ6N4

[tonyp]

500 hours of testing. Another Brit in charge as usual. We apparently are incapable of managing a Metro.
https://youtu.be/b2K9lZiQ6N4

All railed vehicles require an extensive period/mileage of testing before entering service. Quite normal.

[Transtopic]

Another Brit in charge as usual. We apparently are incapable of managing a Metro.
https://youtu.be/b2K9lZiQ6N4

Yes, unfortunately. There's been a history of Brits being recruited in senior management positions with varying degrees of success. Perhaps in more recent times, there has been a desire to distance design and operation of Sydney Metro from any entrenched perspectives of those who have come through the CityRail/Sydney Trains systems. Local knowledge doesn't seem to count for much apparently. The exception I would make is Howard Collins, who seems to have a pragmatic approach, and as current Acting Secretary of Transport for NSW, is in the box seat for the permanent head role of the agency.

[Merc1107]

Perhaps in more recent times, there has been a desire to distance design and operation of Sydney Metro from any entrenched perspectives of those who have come through the CityRail/Sydney Trains systems. Local knowledge doesn't seem to count for much apparently.

Without knowing the background of the individual(s) in question, is a British influence really any better than someone with background with Sydney Trains?

[In Transit]

Perhaps more to the point, the UK with the Elizabeth Line has more recent experience than Australia in commissioning a brand new underground line through a CBD. Throw in the commonality of MTR ownership between the operator of the Elizabeth Line and the operator of Sydney's metro.. and why would you be surprised that a Brit is involved?

This isn't the same as the NSW railways bringing in a string of UK based management to fundamentally operate the same railway as already existed. This is a case of bringing in specific expertise for a specific circumstance - quite different. Unless of course you're happy to reinvent the wheel and enjoy all the challenges that come with that?

[Swift]

All very good points brought up here. I can see this being a totally different set of circumstances now, but initially I let out a sigh of yet again a British accent being a spokesperson.
Definitely a good thing to insulate the Metro from ST as much as possible and can now see the sense in their choice of head.
I have a lot of regard for Howard Collins and how he had to adapt and work around the environment here. He has become a part of the Sydney transport scene and has been a fine addition. I don't envy him TBH.
Of course I expect many hours of testing to be par for the course. No objectIon there.

[tonyp]

All very good points brought up here. I can see this being a totally different set of circumstances now, but initially I let out a sigh of yet again a British accent being a spokesperson.
Definitely a good thing to insulate the Metro from ST as much as possible and can now see the sense in their choice of head.
I have a lot of regard for Howard Collins and how he had to adapt and work around the environment here. He has become a part of the Sydney transport scene and has been a fine addition. I don't envy him TBH.
Of course I expect many hours of testing to be par for the course. No objectIon there.

The CEO of TfNSW's Metro division, Peter Regan, is Australian. The bloke in the video is a TfNSW employee, the project manager for that particular job. ST is a separate division of TfNSW.

[Swift]

I'm sick and tired of hearing British accents whenever there's a train related report on the news and a spokesman in charge speaks with yet another British accent. It's a sign of a pattern of the cultural cringe to me and their rail systems are hardly anything to look up to.

[tonyp]

The Bankstown metro conversion will be completed with a 12 month close down and bustitution.

[Linto63]

Train commuters face 12-month closure of Bankstown rail line (Sydney Morning Herald)

[tonyp]

Bankstown to Sydenham train line to be closed for a year with passengers to catch buses

Passengers on a major Sydney train line will face major challenges from next year, with buses set to replace trains for an extended period of time.
Lachlan Leeming
and
James O'Doherty
less than 2 min read
July 31, 2023 - 7:14PM
3 comments

dailytelegraph.com.au01:28

Commuters on the T3 line will be catching buses instead of trains for a year, with the line to be shut between Bankstown to Sydenham for the Metro South West conversion.

Premier Chris Minns will on Tuesday announce that a section of rail will close from the middle of next year.

Dedicated buses will replace trains for around a year.

The bus services will be more “comprehensive” than just straight rail replacement buses, which simply drive station to station.

The shutdown will impact stations stretching from the T3’s Birrong train station, as well as all stops in-between Bankstown to Sydenham including Wiley Park, Punchbowl, Lakemba, Campsie, Canterbury, Hurlstone Park and Dulwich Hill.

Closing the T3 line for up to a year means southwest Sydney won’t get driverless Metro trains until 2025 at the earliest.

The Daily Telegraph revealed earlier this year the T3 line could be shut for up to 15 months between Bankstown and Sydenham, under plans presented to the former government.

The shutdown was always scheduled to hit commuters in 2024, with the only question being the length of the delay while the track is converted from heavy rail to Metro standards.

In November 2020 Sydney Metro stated the section would have to be shut for only six months for work.

Earlier this year the new government also claimed the line had also blown out by another $2b to a total of $20.11b – $8b above earlier projections.

[tonyp]

Interim review report:

https://www.sydneymetro.info/media/document/35771

[Transtopic]

Although I've never agreed with it, I accept that the Bankstown Line metro conversion is now a fait accompli, as it is most likely past the point of no return having regard to the works and the funds already expended.

It's worth noting that the review stated that "the conversion works will be upgrading a century-old railway corridor to Metro requirements and will not constitute a complete rebuild. Accordingly, some currently-live operational issues may yet persist after conversion is completed –for example, there will remain a historical (and non-Metro specific) risk of flooding at Marrickville and Campsie during exceptional weather events. Options to
efficiently manage this service performance issue post-upgrade should be advised to Government as a priority following the better scoping of works during the first possessions periods"

In hindsight, I wonder if the conversion would have proceeded if all of the ramifications and cost of converting a surface legacy rail line to driverless operation and the cost of disruption to the broader community had been considered initially. There were other options of freeing up capacity on the City Circle such as terminating the Airport Line at Central Platforms 22/23 as an interim measure or in the longer term extending it into a northern CBD terminus. The Airport Line was after all the interloper as an ill-thought out privatised rail extension, when it should have been extended further into the CBD in the first place with the potential to extend it across the harbour.

It's academic now, but even with the current signalling, there are 2 spare paths on the City Circle via Museum which could increase the Bankstown Line services to 12tph via both Town Hall and Museum, a train every 5 minutes compared with the metro's every 4 minutes, and with double the number of seats of the initial metro operation. The existing Bankstown Line could also operate as an all stations service at 12tph, albeit slightly slower, with 6tph from both Liverpool and Lidcombe. The proposed digital signalling and ATO upgrades to the Sydney Trains' network would have reduced journey times for an all stations service to closely match the metro. Alas, that's history now.

[Glen]

There were other options of freeing up capacity on the City Circle such as terminating the Airport Line at Central Platforms 22/23 as an interim measure ..............

Not really, that's a very low capacity option given the long turnaround time.

[Aurora]

The proposed digital signalling and ATO upgrades to the Sydney Trains' network would have reduced journey times for an all stations service to closely match the metro.

I don’t think that technology is going to have the impact on running times that some think it will. While it may be feasible, I think the end result will likely see minimal change to running times. Maybe no more than 2 or 3 minutes reduction over the length of a route.

[Linto63]

ATO will have minimal impact on journey times, what it will allow is trains to run at shorter headways. Turning back T8 services at Central is not a viable option on a number of fronts.

[Fleet Lists]

Email received

In April 2023, the NSW Government announced an independent review into Sydney Metro. The interim review findings have now been released, focused largely on the City & Southwest project due to its critical stage of delivery.  

As recommended by the interim review findings, the NSW Government has committed to the conversion of the T3 Bankstown Line to metro standards.

The independent review found the project delivers significant benefits across the transport network.  

The review also found the final conversion of the T3 Bankstown Line will require a shutdown of up to 12 months, beginning between July and October 2024. 

During this time, temporary transport will be in place to ensure people can continue to get where they need to go. Further information will be provided to the community well in advance of the final conversion.

A project update is available here. It provides information regarding remaining works, timelines, and some frequently asked questions. 

Further information about the Sydney Metro independent review interim findings can be found here in the report summary.

Sydney Metro will continue working closely with local communities and stakeholders across the alignment to minimise impacts as much as possible.

[tonyp]

Email received

In April 2023, the NSW Government announced an independent review into Sydney Metro. The interim review findings have now been released, focused largely on the City & Southwest project due to its critical stage of delivery.  

As recommended by the interim review findings, the NSW Government has committed to the conversion of the T3 Bankstown Line to metro standards.

The independent review found the project delivers significant benefits across the transport network.  

The review also found the final conversion of the T3 Bankstown Line will require a shutdown of up to 12 months, beginning between July and October 2024. 

During this time, temporary transport will be in place to ensure people can continue to get where they need to go. Further information will be provided to the community well in advance of the final conversion.

A project update is available here. It provides information regarding remaining works, timelines, and some frequently asked questions. 

Further information about the Sydney Metro independent review interim findings can be found here in the report summary.

Sydney Metro will continue working closely with local communities and stakeholders across the alignment to minimise impacts as much as possible.

A link to the project update?

[Fleet Lists]

Try https://www.sydneymetro.info/media/document/35836
and/or https://www.sydneymetro.info/media/document/35771