Pneumocyclic Transmission problems!

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state
57Cub
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Pneumocyclic Transmission problems!

Post by 57Cub »

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and have some questions about Pneumocyclic transmissions.

The gearbox in question is in an ex MTT 1957 Tiger Cub with a four speed pnuematic selector (no solenoids).

-Reverse gear will not select.
When gears 1-4 are selected you can feel the gear engaging positively.
In reverse there is a just a very slight feeling of engaging, then nothing.

It did engage strongly for about five seconds when I accidentally left it in reverse while I got pressure up then it just stopped again.:oops:
Brakes are disengaging as it moves forward freely.

Also what transmission fluid can I use in this box? I cannot find a "Leyland E-85" compatible transmission fluid. Would an auto trans fluid cause any problems? If someone can recommend a specific type of fluid that would be great!

Thanks for your thought on this..

57Cub
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Andrew21
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Post by Andrew21 »

If all the other gears are working fine, it's possible there's an air leak in the reverse gear air line, or there is a problem with the cylinder in the gearbox (eg it may be sticking). My experience with Pneumocyclics is limited (my experience having been from working on an atlantean) but I hope this helps.

Andrew
57Cub
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Post by 57Cub »

Andrew21 wrote:If all the other gears are working fine, it's possible there's an air leak in the reverse gear air line, or there is a problem with the cylinder in the gearbox (eg it may be sticking). My experience with Pneumocyclics is limited (my experience having been from working on an atlantean) but I hope this helps.

Andrew
Thanks Andrew,

I can't find any air-leaks, and am unsure of how to chech a sticking piston.

I thought perhaps a problem in the gear-shift pedastal or a failing brake band in the transmission might be the cause.. again I don't know how do diagnose these faults.

I found a Castrol Tranzmax Z 70W-80 which according to Castrol...

Transmax Z 70W-80
Full synthetic recommended for all off-highway vehicles fitted with automaticand semi-automatic transmissions and may also be used in manual transmissions.
Recommended for fleets employing a mixture of Voith, Renk, ZF, Allison andMB transmissions alongside the Leyland Pneumocyclic and Hydracyclic units.
Extended oil drain [90.000 km] in ZF Ecomat MB AT and Voith AT.

Hoping this will do the job...

Anyone have any idea of the capacity in litres of this transmission?

57Cub
ddec
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Post by ddec »

G'day Cub57,

If you want to eleminate the selector, simply drop the air line off the transmission for reverse gear, have the air built up and select reverse with the ignition on (don't need the engine running). If you hear plenty of air coming from the line, selector is okies.

If you want to see if the band is broken, I'm guessing there is a hatch above the box in the saloon floor of the bus, open the floor and you should find two covers on top of the transmission. Make sure the top of the transmission is clean and take both of those covers off and that will let you see down into the transmission. Don't have the engine running when these are off. On each of the bands, there is an adjusting nut on the band adjuster. The reverse band may need a slight adjustment. You will be able to see if the band is broken, it will be loose and sloppy.

I've worked quite a bit on late model pneumocyclics. I'm happy to give more suggestions. Private message me if you want.

Regards,
DDEC
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mosman was
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Post by mosman was »

The correct oil is hydrolic 68 oil, is also used in the flywheel, can be bought from enzed or any plant machine supply shop.With the gearbox, if the adjuster bolt is out the top of the nut, that usually means no band left.
In the words of a "highly succesful bus operator", I choose to be a winner and not a loser! I am now winning!!
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DiAmOnD T
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Post by DiAmOnD T »

You can also run ATF (auto trans fluid, ie dextron 2 or 3) in both gearbox and flywheel.
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57Cub
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Location: Perth WA

Thankyou!

Post by 57Cub »

I've filled up the box with dextron lll grade oil.

I will attempt to diagnose the problem as advised this week.

I'll let you know how it goes...

Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks again.

57Cub
57Cub
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Transmission problems

Post by 57Cub »

Have ordered a piston seal kit, will fit it and see if that improves things..

Otherwise Phil from Allbus repairs is going to come out and have a look...

Thanks for your replies

57Cub
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Dennis96
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Which Bus??

Post by Dennis96 »

Hi,

It can't be an ex MTT (WA) Leyland Tiger Cub, as these did not enter service until 1966 and the gears were selected by an electrically actuated set of solenoids.

It seems you may have a Leyland Royal Tiger Worldmaster with a pneumatic gear change (pedestal beside the driver, rather than a steering column mounted arrangement).

Is the former number of the bus visible anywhere, or what's the chassis number so we canidentify it. Hydraulic 68 or its equivalent is the oil - use in both gearbox and fluid flywhel.
Passengers must not talk to Driver
57Cub
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Can't be a Cub?

Post by 57Cub »

Hi Dennis,

It has the MTT regulations notice in the usual spot and the old green upholsterd MTT seats.. No bus # is visible..

It is a Leyland
VIN#560365
Engine# 20



Image
Image[/img]
57Cub
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Maybe this pic will work..

Post by 57Cub »

Image


Image
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Dennis96
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Leyland Royal Tiger Worldmaster

Post by Dennis96 »

You have an ex Metro Worldmaster - could possibly have been number 21. Was rebodied by Boltons in 1966.
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57Cub
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Thankyou...

Post by 57Cub »

I guess its too late too change my forum name.... :lol:

What are the differences, pros and cons of the Tiger Cub and the Worldmaster?
57Cub
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Yes, this is my Bus

Post by 57Cub »

preMTT 21

MTT 21

CHASSIS 560365

ENGINE EO600

BODY BO B48F /B49F



u/r Unknown (Herne Hill) [by 05.11.2005]; ex-? Mary Mckillop School (Ballajura); ex-6FG087 Chisholm College / St Thomas Aquinas School (Bedford); ex-UQB021 [22.10.1968] / WAG8021 [20.02.1964] / UAN115 MTT (21) [31.08.1958]; ex-UAN115 Metropolitan Omnibus Co / Metro (21) [26.02.1957]
Re-bodied BO B49F 28.01.1966; Withdrawn & stored 14.10.1978; Returned to service 01.02.1980; Withdrawn 27.02.1980
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hij
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Post by hij »

Has the same body as our ex-MTT Albion Vikings
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mosman was
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Post by mosman was »

DiAmOnD T wrote:You can also run ATF (auto trans fluid, ie dextron 2 or 3) in both gearbox and flywheel.
YOU KNOW BETTER!!! Do not put ATF in gear box. ATF can be used in flywheel but you can not mix the 2, ATF or 68 hydrolic oil, they will not work together.
In the words of a "highly succesful bus operator", I choose to be a winner and not a loser! I am now winning!!
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mosman was
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Re: Which Bus??

Post by mosman was »

Dennis96 wrote:Hi,

It can't be an ex MTT (WA) Leyland Tiger Cub, as these did not enter service until 1966 and the gears were selected by an electrically actuated set of solenoids.

It seems you may have a Leyland Royal Tiger Worldmaster with a pneumatic gear change (pedestal beside the driver, rather than a steering column mounted arrangement).

Is the former number of the bus visible anywhere, or what's the chassis number so we canidentify it. Hydraulic 68 or its equivalent is the oil - use in both gearbox and fluid flywhel.
pneumatic or electric, it's still the same box just a different control setup!!!
In the words of a "highly succesful bus operator", I choose to be a winner and not a loser! I am now winning!!
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DiAmOnD T
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Post by DiAmOnD T »

mosman was wrote:
YOU KNOW BETTER!!! Do not put ATF in gear box. ATF can be used in flywheel but you can not mix the 2, ATF or 68 hydrolic oil, they will not work together.
Well DER!!!!!!!!!!
You can run atf in a flywheel and box AFTER you drain out the old fluid.

Theres no problem in running it, all the leopards run it at Hunter Valley buses and its only driver abuse that causes failure
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mosman was
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Post by mosman was »

DO NOT PUT ATF IN THE GEARBOX!! IT WIL FU_K IT!!
In the words of a "highly succesful bus operator", I choose to be a winner and not a loser! I am now winning!!
57Cub
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Post by 57Cub »

Tranzmax Z is specified by castrol for Pneumocyclic transmissions...

Will this fluid cause problems?
busntruck
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Post by busntruck »

CASTROL PSG-E OIL IS THE CORRECT STUFF FOR THE OLD SEMI AUTO BOXES. I KNOW SEVERAL BUS OPERATORS THAT STILL USE IT.
LAST TIME I PAID FOR SOME, IT WAS ABOUT $!00 FOR A 20L DRUM.
ITS LABELED BY CASTROL "LEYLAND COMMERCIAL VEHICLE SEMI AUTO OIL TO LEYLAND E85 SPEC" FROM MEMORY.
I HAVE HEARD OF PEOPLE USING ATF AND HYDRAULIC OILS ALSO.
I HAVE ALWAYS USED THE CASTROL PRODUCT.
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DiAmOnD T
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Post by DiAmOnD T »

mosman was wrote:DO NOT PUT ATF IN THE GEARBOX!! IT WIL FU_K IT!!
As i said ALL hunter leopards run atf in their boxes with out fault (except due to driver abuse which they all cop daily)

They got 10 years out of an abused tiger box with atf

You must try and experement some time!

Call me
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boronia
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Post by boronia »

Several products have been mentioned here as being "suitable". Most probably are because the meet the specific requirements of the Leyland specification (which basically relate to viscosity and chemical composition of the oil).

I would suggest you contact the respective manufacturers and ask them to confirm in writing that the product is suitable for use in this situation. THis way if anything goes wrong in the future, you have grounds to seek compensation for damage.
57Cub
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Post by 57Cub »

Yay!

I now have reverse gear, Phil from Allbus repairs diagnosed and gave me instructions over the phone, a great help!

Reverse gear was out of adjustment, tightened up the brake adjuster and it works beautifully!

Thanks everybody for your help and advice.
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DiAmOnD T
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Post by DiAmOnD T »

boronia wrote:Several products have been mentioned here as being "suitable". Most probably are because the meet the specific requirements of the Leyland specification (which basically relate to viscosity and chemical composition of the oil).

I would suggest you contact the respective manufacturers and ask them to confirm in writing that the product is suitable for use in this situation. THis way if anything goes wrong in the future, you have grounds to seek compensation for damage.
True, but i dont think any one here can pick up the phone and call Leyland for advice!?!? nor Wilson for that fact either.

Any hows, good for you 57 cub, its running and reversing so take her out for a run and make us all jelous that we cant be there!!!!!!!
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