NSW High Speed Rail... On Again Off Again

[Swift]

I wish they'd go into an election promising never to bring up high speed rail at all during the next four yearly cycle.
That would be a welcome pledge they can keep to but won't.

[flitter]

Looks like that announcement refers specifically for Sydney - Newcastle, which is the only line previous studies and indicated as economically viable.

I think it’s actually positive news that they’re learning from the past attempts to go Sydney-Melbourne-Brisbane in one hit and trying a smaller target.

[boronia]

To be effective, HSR needs minimal stops along the route.

Much of the patronage on the CCN is from all the intermediate stops along the way. Very few pax go all the way to NI.

If HSR is built with intentions to continue northwards, where would a "Newcastle" stop actually be?

[Glen]

Broadmeadow?

[Linto63]

Not that is likely to ever happen, but any HSR from Sydney to Brisbane would likely pass to the west of Newcastle, perhaps following a similar alignment to the proposed Lower Hunter Freight Corridor.

[mandonov]

Broadmeadow?

Yes, this is what the head of the HSRA has tasked the agency with planning for.

The previous HSR study was substandard and relied on majority of passengers using park and ride stations in the middle of nowhere, and the assumption that no existing drivers on the M1 would switch modes. Segments of dedicated high speed tracks connecting in to existing alignments to serve actual population centres would be sufficient.

[Linto63]

High Speed Rail Authority's $80 million business case for the Federal Government released proposing services between Newcastle and the Central Coast would commence in 2037, being extended to the Sydney CBD in 2039 and Parramatta and Western Sydney Airport in 2042. No mention of cost, other than it was estimated at $32 billion three years ago, so safe to assume would now be north of $40 billion.

Staged build of high-speed train line from Newcastle to Sydney revealed (Sydney Morning Herald)

[Swift]

As the late night time shock jock Stan Zenanek would say, there’s two chances of that happening, none and Buckley’s.

[alleve]

Cost Benefit Ratio of 0.8.

They seem to think it'd only take 5% of people out of their cars? Seems very low

[tonyp]

The outcome will be another one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W32klYkTxCQ

[Swift]

Here’s what France’s idea of an HSR feasibility study was in 1981.

https://youtu.be/xJdsFyc780M?si=z24mD7gQKyaoQVcu

[rtt_rules]

Cost Benefit Ratio of 0.8.

They seem to think it'd only take 5% of people out of their cars? Seems very low

Yes, because public transport is mass transport and isn't a one size fits all. HSR stations are spaced further apart and the distance from CCN to Sydney is not huge and HSR is headed west, not towards Central (do not believe the hype it will run to Central).

HSR money is best spent on commuter rail.

[Aurora]

Inclined to agree, specially with the domination of air travel for longer distances which appears to be satisfying demand for the longer distances.

[rtt_rules]

Inclined to agree, specially with the domination of air travel for longer distances which appears to be satisfying demand for the longer distances.

An example on CCN

Assume following stations from what I've read in the past

- Paramatta or there abouts
- Hornsby
- Gosford
- Wyong
- Broadmeadow

Cost wise, we all know how much its costing for MW, 27 km. Ok it has additional stations, but now we are tunneling from Paramatta to Hornsby and most of the way to Gosford.

Alternatively modernise the CCN corridor
- Straigten the line from Mt Kuring-gai to Berowa
- From Berowa take a more direct route via tunnel towards Hawesbury River station
- From Mullet Creek realign the track to be straighter to enable sustained +160 km/h speeds.
- Then rather than take right hand turn in Woy Woy tunnel, go straight across Myron Brook rejoining the CCN line on the long straight towards Tascott
- Tascott station bend can be eased by swapping the line with Brisbane Water Driver.

This will save around 20 - 25 min from the current 41 min (express) by reducing both the 47km route by around 10 km and whats remaining will mostly have a track alignment exceeding 200 km/h.

Line would be built as 3 / 4 tracks, all trains operate faster.

[tonyp]

- Straigten the line from Mt Kuring-gai to Berowa
- From Berowa take a more direct route via tunnel towards Hawesbury River station

The line runs along the top of a very narrow ridge. You can't straighten it unless you build viaducts across the intervening valleys. Straight down to Brooklyn? Would sir like a rack railway for entree?

[rtt_rules]

- Straigten the line from Mt Kuring-gai to Berowa
- From Berowa take a more direct route via tunnel towards Hawesbury River station

The line runs along the top of a very narrow ridge. You can't straighten it unless you build viaducts across the intervening valleys. Straight down to Brooklyn? Would sir like a rack railway for entree?

Fortunately we won't be buulding it with a pick, shovel and wheel barrow this time.

You could start by handing a map to the civil engineer and tell him/her to look at the alignment of the adjoining M1, then copy it (to Berowra).

Berowra (206 m) to Hawesbury river (5 m) is ~ 11.5 km over 201 m following the terrain remaining mostly in a tunnel. thats 1:57 climb over mostly straightish / large radius curved alignment vs the current route via Cowan (191 m) is ~8km via rail to Hawesbury River station (5 m) which is a very curvy 1:43.

Which is worse?

[Swift]

I found this, if you can put up with all the promotional material and don’t be mislead y the title. It only means the first of many stages to come, if it doesn’t get canned at any stage.
https://www.railway.supply/high-speed-r ... stle-link/

[Stu]

^ More tunnels in Sydney… it is going to become congested underground.

Trains are to run at speeds of 320 kilometers per hour between Central Coast and Newcastle, but only 200 kilometers per hour within the narrower tunnels in Sydney

.

[rtt_rules]

^ More tunnels in Sydney… it is going to become congested underground.

Trains are to run at speeds of 320 kilometers per hour between Central Coast and Newcastle, but only 200 kilometers per hour within the narrower tunnels in Sydney

.

Yes.

If HSR ever reaches Central, it will be Central station only avoiding the bulk of the CBD underground network.