Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

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Transport Buff
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Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Transport Buff »

An interesting summary/overview of Sydney's public transport from a Norwegian transit enthusiast, who currently lives in Sydney.

A well-produced video that sums up our transport scene nicely. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmxr3fie7xA
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Glen »

He had me when he marvelled at the reversible seating in our trains.

And here's me thinking we were wrong and the rest of the world was right. :wink:
Last edited by Glen on Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Transtopic »

Also end saloons on the DD trains at platform level for wheelchairs, which a lot of people overlook. More spaces could easily be provided.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Transtopic wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:44 pm Also end saloons on the DD trains at platform level for wheelchairs, which a lot of people overlook. More spaces could easily be provided.
The 19th century planers that drew up the plans for the Sydney rail network didn't know what accessibility was as mobility aids weren't widely available to the public to use until the early 20th century. The future wasn't planed for during the original planing process
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by tonyp »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:16 am The 19th century planers that drew up the plans for the Sydney rail network didn't know what accessibility was as mobility aids weren't widely available to the public to use until the early 20th century. The future wasn't planed for during the original planing process
The biggest practical problem on the suburban (and intercity) network is the platform gaps, meaning that ramps have to be used for compliant access, which means in turn a delay to the train and the necessity for staff, whether on the train or on the platform. This is almost unresolvable due to the scale of the problem.

The disabled spaces inside the double deck trains aren't great either, because the carriage ends are full-width passageways and, with the vestibules, the only practicable standee space, though that in turn conflicts with the only doors on the carriage and people getting on and off. So users of the disabled spaces tend to be trampled somewhat in a crowd, compared to a single deck train, bus or tram where the wheelchair or pram can be tucked away from the aisle better. In Europe with its low platforms, the whole lower deck of double deckers, between the bogies, is level with the platform and stepless, so there is less conflict and often no need for staff assistance.

With the relentless population growth, the suburban system needs to transition back to single deck, starting with the Airport line which is one of the worst for internal space conflict. The upcoming replacement of Tangaras is an opportunity to start the change. Three door carriages too, like the Victorian HCMT which is a good model.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:09 am With the relentless population growth, the suburban system needs to transition back to single deck, starting with the Airport line which is one of the worst for internal space conflict. The upcoming replacement of Tangaras is an opportunity to start the change. Three door carriages too, like the Victorian HCMT which is a good model.
Trains with metro style longitude bench seating would be better then the Victorian 2 and 2 bucket style seating arrangement
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Transtopic »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:59 pm
tonyp wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:09 am With the relentless population growth, the suburban system needs to transition back to single deck, starting with the Airport line which is one of the worst for internal space conflict. The upcoming replacement of Tangaras is an opportunity to start the change. Three door carriages too, like the Victorian HCMT which is a good model.
Trains with metro style longitude bench seating would be better then the Victorian 2 and 2 bucket style seating arrangement
They trialled different seat configurations, including longitudinal seating in the centre saloons in a Tangara carriage a few years ago and nothing further was ever heard about it. That suggests it wasn't popular. I dislike it more than going backwards.

With regard to tonyp's comment about transitioning back to single deck, I agree to a point, but it should be restricted to the higher density all stations inner city services such as the Airport Line and Inner West Line. Longer distance suburban services should remain double deck which provides more seats. This was proposed by Railcorp previously to improve frequency and journey times using compatible SD and DD trains, but it later morphed into the separate SD metro system we now have.

Whichever party wins next week's election, I think that it's unlikely that the Tangaras will be replaced with SD trains, whenever that happens. Does anyone know the status of the Tangara upgrade program which could extend their lifespan for a couple of decades?
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Transtopic »

Further to above, the following image is a proposed integrated SD and DD rail network before the separate metro came onto the scene.

https://i.imgur.com/q0GD8pi.jpg

Note the original intention to extend the NWRL to Marsden Park and a branch to a Northern Beaches Line from Victoria Cross. All of the SD services were proposed to run via the new CBD and cross harbour link, which would have been upgraded with digital signalling and ATO to GoA2 technology standard, increasing frequency and reducing journey times.

Utilising parts of the existing network with compatible SD trains would have allowed for service upgrades to be carried out much sooner than would otherwise be the case if these same lines were converted to incompatible driverless metro, with all of the extra cost and disruption that entails. The fact that this strategy would still require a driver and possibly guard shouldn't come into it. We're not starting with a clean sheet and the cost/benefit of this compared with the additional cost and disruption of a complete conversion to driverless metro, assuming it's even feasible, has to be weighed up. As it stands, the capacity on the current CBD metro link is wasted without further branching.

The fact that the Bankstown Line conversion has been delayed, with no firm completion date, bears testimony to that and it can't be solely blamed on union intransigence. It's fanciful to suggest that most of the existing network could be converted to driverless metro when running in mixed traffic conditions.
Last edited by Transtopic on Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by Randomness »

Does anyone know the status of the Tangara upgrade program which could extend their lifespan for a couple of decades?
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by moa999 »

Where is there an announcement about a Bankstown Line delay?

While agree the airport line could do with single deck, it's also one of the hardest with its very curved and narrow platforms.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:19 pm Where is there an announcement about a Bankstown Line delay?

While agree the airport line could do with single deck, it's also one of the hardest with its very curved and narrow platforms.
There's no current delay to the Bankstown project. There was delay last year due to unrelated industrial action.

It amazes me that, considering that the Airport line was only conceived about 30 years ago, it's so badly designed. They might have to use gap fillers with three-door cars, as the centre door might be just a little to far for safety from some platforms.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by jpp42 »

moa999 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:19 pm Where is there an announcement about a Bankstown Line delay?
They aren't exactly shouting it from the hills, but last year the SMH reported:
The government has also confirmed a 13-kilometre section of the City and Southwest line between Sydenham and Bankstown will open up to 12 months’ later than the rest of the largely underground railway in 2024.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/syd ... 5avem.html
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by moa999 »

But hasn't 2024 always been the date for C&SW metro?
There has always been some fluidity in the timetable afaik.
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by eddy »

Transtopic wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:44 pm Also end saloons on the DD trains at platform level for wheelchairs, which a lot of people overlook. More spaces could easily be provided.
I saw four mates whith their electric bikes in one end at Kiama and it was a squeeze so I think it is time to build a single deck carriage in Australia to go in the middle of all double deck trains.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
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Re: Summary of Sydney's Public Transport - YouTube

Post by tonyp »

eddy wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:15 am I saw four mates whith their electric bikes in one end at Kiama and it was a squeeze so I think it is time to build a single deck carriage in Australia to go in the middle of all double deck trains.
A single deck train would be even better.
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