New Country Trains

[ScaniaGrenda]

I very recently did my first overnight trip on an XPT SYD - MEL and MEL - SYD (so return trip)

While there's nothing that can help the situation, I found it very uncomfortable to sleep upright, it's not just a situation where I haven't done it before but trying to sleep straight up, isn't doable for me. I would drift in and out of sleep before eventually giving up and just stay awake. I had to get up a couple of times in the middle of the return journey at 1, 3 and 5 AM to stretch my legs since my bottom was aching from the seats for some strange reason, I tried to reposition myself while sitting but nothing was helping, I was just waiting for the train to pull up at Central so I could finally hop off.

Yes the seats do recline to a degree but you have to be considerate of the person sitting behind you, you don't exactly want to squish them either or make it hard for them to get out if need be if your fast asleep.

I strangely found no problem sitting on the same seats to and from Broadmeadow.

[HunterLine5]

I very recently did my first overnight trip on an XPT SYD - MEL and MEL - SYD (so return trip)

While there's nothing that can help the situation, I found it very uncomfortable to sleep upright, it's not just a situation where I haven't done it before but trying to sleep straight up, isn't doable for me. I would drift in and out of sleep before eventually giving up and just stay awake. I had to get up a couple of times in the middle of the return journey at 1, 3 and 5 AM to stretch my legs since my bottom was aching from the seats for some strange reason, I tried to reposition myself while sitting but nothing was helping, I was just waiting for the train to pull up at Central so I could finally hop off.
Yes the seats do recline to a degree but you have to be considerate of the person sitting behind you, you don't exactly want to squish them either or make it hard for them to get out if need be if your fast asleep.

I strangely found no problem sitting on the same seats to and from Broadmeadow.

I feel every bit of your pain!!…I did that very trip in 87, when I was in my late 30’s , and to keep costs down, tried sleeping in the damn seat, newborn babies in the seat behind me, aww cripes, lol, but getting back to it, I certainly couldn’t do it now, I’m over 60+ and I need a lay down, so just imagine what’s goin to be said when the pensioner groups as well as other interested parties are concerned when the cat get outta the bag, when they find out that there is nowhere to lay down …..it’s not going to be pretty

Just like no reversible seats on new InterCity trains, and having to ducka you heada when using crap made foreign ferries, is there no end to the current NSW Gov Transport success stories?

[tonyp]

This is TfNSW's brilliant record of procurement at work. The only things they've got right are the metro trains and the Custom Denning Element.

For many years I travelled between Sydney and Melbourne, plus elsewhere in the state. The best was by plane, then by car, next best the Aurora, but never slept very well in it because you'd get woken up every station. The dining car meals were fantastic though. The XPT was a bit harsh but redeemed by being quicker. The seats in the Intercapital Daylight and the Spirit were nice, as were all the postwar NSWGR air conditioned expresses. The mail train seats were pretty brutal but the sleepers not bad and very elegant historical ambience. A couple of times I went by coach. That was just purgatory, I don't know how the coach companies did any business.

[ScaniaGrenda]

I think for anything that operates as an overnight service, having sleeper cars is a must, the big problem is you have 200+ people travelling on the one train and afaik the one sleeper car carriage that is going to of course fit in less than 200 of those people, regardless it's a necessity but something that if it were to return would be charged as the same premium that we're seeing with our current express booked trains.

The other concerning factor and I'm not sure if this has since changed, will be changed or is confirmed is that looking at that the single carriage we get to see in the announcement video, I can't tell if these recline back or not?



I can see what appears to be a small ellipse shape button on the lower frame of the chair which may or may not confirm this but we don't know the exact function of it yet. I am not sure of the exact comfort factor of these seats will bring for trying to sleep upright on an overnight trip either, they don't look exactly comfortable for sleeping and as I already mentioned in my previous post, I struggled badly to sleep on the XPT's current seating.

On both trips to and from Melbourne, the XPT crew had to make reminder announcements about how sleeping on the floor was prohibited, general safety thing of course but can Imagine a few previous travelers have also had discomfort with the seats and attempted to sleep on the floor.

[Linto63]

I can see what appears to be a small ellipse shape button on the lower frame of the chair which may or may not confirm this but we don't know the exact function of it yet.

Wheelchair assist button

On both trips to and from Melbourne, the XPT crew had to make reminder announcements about how sleeping on the floor was prohibited, general safety thing of course but can Imagine a few previous travelers have also had discomfort with the seats and attempted to sleep on the floor.

Same thing happens on planes.

As I understand there won't be any sleeping facilities with the new fleet.

[ScaniaGrenda]

Wheelchair assist button

Not talking about the red wheelchair assist button, I'm referring to the actual passenger seat itself on the left hand side of the image, It's hard to make out but as I said there's what appears to be a small shape in the form of an ellipse that may or may not be the lever to have the chair recline back.

As I understand there won't be any sleeping facilities with the new fleet.

Which is a shame, whether it be political arguing that had it added onto the original XPT or not, if the train is an overnight service it's something that should be have been part of the base inclusion for the new rollingstock. The against that makes the most sense to me for the removal would be because most XPT trips are only overnight & under 11 hours, it may have not been enough to warrant newer sleeper cars being included as part of the replacement for the XPT, if was a 48 hour trip or beyond perhaps the decision may have been different.

Still regardless, if it's being used on our current aging XPT, there's clearly demand for it and people are happy to throw money at it, taking it away just seems silly, one would hope Comfort was carefully thought of when the CAF train was selected.

[Aurora]

Financially speaking, that would depend on whether the revenue generated is greater than the initial costs and upkeep of those cars.

[boronia]

I made an overnight XPT 1st class seated trip to Melbourne many years ago. My main recollection of the trip was the lack of lateral neck/head support while sleeping. I bought a neck cushion for the return journey which reduced the problem. The new carriage seats seem to have good "wings" to prevent this.

This week I rode an XPL economy to Canberra. The seat felt comfortable initially, but after a couple of hours I started to get the "numb bum" discomfort associated with a 15 minute ride in an Oscar, from a lack of thigh support.

I came back in a Murrays BCI. The seat was narrow, but otherwise quite comfortable. The suspension seemed quite harsh, with every little bump or depression in the road surface being noticeable.

[1whoknows]

For overnight travel we should be copying Europe which has seen a resurgence in overnight trains in recent years. The Austrian run OBB Nightjet services offer sleeping cars similar to our old Southern Aurura units, though not all have the in room toilet/ shower. Speed should not be such an issue then - for example Melbourne to Sydney 8pm to 8am is not a problem. Save the XPTs and replacements for the daylight runs.

[ScaniaGrenda]

I've only really been in the XPT sleeper car once, I was very fortunate when I got "upgraded" to it from first class at no extra cost, it was only a short trip through under two hours so I wasn't going to be able to make proper use of the compartment however regardless I enjoyed my little room all to myself.

Prior to just making my booking for my Christmas holiday, I was actually considering the sleeper car. Where I'm from I'd need to take a total of 4 XPT's, one from my town to Sydney, then Sydney to Melbourne and when the holidays wrapped up, Melbourne to Sydney and then Sydney back to my town, after already having spent $1000+ on accommodation at the hotel I stayed at, I couldn't really justify the $600 cost it was going to cost me to use the XPT's sleeper cars.

I wouldn't really need it on the Newcastle to Sydney and Sydney to Newcastle leg, pointless and a waste of money. Sydney to Melbourne which is overnight I can justify on the other hand. The problem was is that because I was taking two XPT's to get from Newcastle to Melbourne, I could only book the one class type, I wasn't able to change the Sydney to Melbourne run to Sleeper car. The only work around would've been to book them individually but that's way too much hassle just to have class type switched and I believe payment is sent through to Trainlink the moment you book your tickets.

For all my XPT trains on the recent trip, I stuck to First class except on the Melbourne to Sydney run which I was informed of on the day of departure would be replaced by an economy car due to the first class car B needing to be in for maintenance (At least I got to apply for a partial refund on that one).

[boronia]

For overnight travel we should be copying Europe which has seen a resurgence in overnight trains in recent years. The Austrian run OBB Nightjet services offer sleeping cars similar to our old Southern Aurura units, though not all have the in room toilet/ shower. Speed should not be such an issue then - for example Melbourne to Sydney 8pm to 8am is not a problem. Save the XPTs and replacements for the daylight runs.

Sleeper trains seem to be making a comeback in Japan too. Lots of videos on YouTube showing what is available. Overnight ferries are also popular there.

Many of the sleepers, though, are just "capsule berths" with little privacy or security. I don't think too many Australians would take to this format.

[jpp42]

I wouldn't really need it on the Newcastle to Sydney and Sydney to Newcastle leg, pointless and a waste of money. Sydney to Melbourne which is overnight I can justify on the other hand. The problem was is that because I was taking two XPT's to get from Newcastle to Melbourne, I could only book the one class type, I wasn't able to change the Sydney to Melbourne run to Sleeper car. The only work around would've been to book them individually but that's way too much hassle just to have class type switched and I believe payment is sent through to Trainlink the moment you book your tickets.

I presume this is a web site limitation? I don't think there is a prohibition against "mixed class" bookings in general and you can do this via phone or in-person at NSW Trainlink staffed offices (not that there are many of these left...)

[boronia]

Secret report reveals $1 billion-plus cost blowout in bungled NSW trains project

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sec ... 5chpo.html

[moa999]

Time and time again with the public sector bureaucracy.

Fail to nail down the contract.
Insist on variations after the fact.

[boronia]

Updated report:
‘Significant time and cost risks’: New Spanish-built trains risk further delays
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sig ... 5chq4.html

[HunterLine5]

Surely, even the most hardened lieberal supporter couldn’t back this government and its record on successful delivery of public transport !!!.
Even after reading that, and knowing the project is still in its very early stages, perhaps dump the damn thing as has been mentioned ?……im sure the boys at say E.D.I. would love to have a shot, bring out their design which they submitted perhaps ?……

Thoughts?……

[boronia]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/spa ... 5cixn.html

[HunterLine5]

RIGHT!!!………that’s it!… enough said…… CANCEL THE DAMN THING NOW!!!.

[Transtopic]

RIGHT!!!………that’s it!… enough said…… CANCEL THE DAMN THING NOW!!!.

Agreed. This has been a disaster from the very start, along with the decision to build the maintenance centre on the fringe of the network at Dubbo to appease the Nationals. The only good thing about it is the bi-mode power operation, which I would hope would be a feature with any possible replacement.

It's a further example of the erosion of expertise within the public sector offering frank and fearless advice and the over reliance on overpriced consultants, who are going to tell the government what they want to hear, if they want to get more work.

If Labor wins the election, they would have good cause to cancel the project, even in the face of paying out compensation to CAF, and starting over again with a clean sheet. It would require further upgrades to the current Regional fleet to fill the gap until a new fleet comes on line, but it would be worth it in the longer term to get it right.

[1whoknows]

Well absurdity definitely rules - Spain has now managed to build trains that are too tall to fit through some Spanish rail tunnels. Two top execs sacked.

[Randomness]

Seems to be how CAF works - lure them in with the price and then overcharge for extra work that needs to be done later. I’ve heard the same in the UK about people not liking the “Civity” fleet or “Mk5” carriages.

[HunterLine5]

New report on 7 news last night, ANOTHER BLOWOUT IN COSTS, ANOTHER DELAY IN DELIVERY, $800’odd mill apparently, and more design changes ordered by TfNSW….WORDS FAIL ME!!

[Aurora]

Not really, change of government has meant a change in perspective and stakeholders have made particular requests which have led to the latest changes.

[flitter]

Not really, change of government has meant a change in perspective and stakeholders have made particular requests which have led to the latest changes.

Does anyone have a link to the list of changes since the original order?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[matthewg]

I’ve heard the same in the UK about people not liking the “Civity” fleet or “Mk5” carriages.

The CAF-built MK5 'Nova3' has been such a good train, that the operator withdrew and stored them, despite the least having another 6 months. They would rather pay for idle stored carriages than use them in service!
(I gather they were so unreliable that services were too frequently cancelled, so they figured store the trains and run older DMUs on the services).

The CAF DMUs also had issues - CAF appears to have had a fabrication QC problem as they have had multiple types of rollingstock with multiple operators develop serious cracks.

They may have been too aggressive at bidding low to get the contract and then over 'optimising' their production processes.