Size of the Australian capital city public transport fleet

[tonyp]

As a spin-off from curiosity about the shortage of bus drivers in Sydney, I did a quick tally of the public transport vehicle fleet in the capital cities. There are some qualifiers. One is that Sydney. Melbourne and Brisbane include outer metropolitan/interurban areas - those covered by the relevant system's smartcard. Services in other capital cities are within the main metropolitan area. Another qualification is that fleet numbers are constantly changing, Melbourne trains, for example, being in the midst of replacing an old class with a new one, so most figures must be regarded as rounded or approximate. Thirdly, the train and tram figures are consists, except for those trams that run as single cars, and consist lengths vary substantially between cities. Fourthly, the Sydney train figure includes both suburban and metro trains for completeness, even though the latter are driverless. Fifthly, Sydney ferry figures don't include private operators where it is not possible to separate their transit fleet from their larger cruise and charter fleet. The sizes of ferries also vary radically between cities. The bus figures come from ATDB Fleetlists. Any corrections are welcome of course.

Trains

Greater Sydney 300+
Greater Melbourne 300
Greater Brisbane 220
Perth 130
Adelaide 100

Trams

Melbourne 510
Greater Sydney 48
Adelaide 24
Gold Coast (Greater Brisbane) 18
Canberra 14

Ferries

Sydney 40
Brisbane 28
Perth 3

Buses

Greater Sydney 5,500
Greater Melbourne 2,700
Greater Brisbane 1,750+
Perth 1,692
Adelaide 1,034
Canberra 460
Hobart 167
Darwin 79

[Linto63]

The train figures prove little. A Sydney eight car double deck set is in a different league capacity wise to two car singe deckers in Adelaide or Perth. Number of carriages would be more representative. On that basis Sydney's fleet is 5.5 times the size of Perth's, not 1.9 by using set numbers.

Sydney's bus fleet is nowhere near 5,500, more like 4,100 per the fleet lists (Busabout 131, Busways 810, CDC 772, Interline 119, Keolis Downer 413, Punchbowl 74, Transdev 459, Transdev John Holland 487, Transit Systems 853). Although the public transport fleet (i.e. those that are Opal equipped) will be a bit less as there are charter only vehicles within those numbers. This ties back to TfNSW's 2021 Zero Emission Bus Transition Strategy white paper which reported it as 4,090. Such a glaring miscalculation makes me query the validity of some of the other data.

[tonyp]

The train figures prove little. A Sydney eight car double deck set is in a different league capacity wise to two car singe deckers in Adelaide or Perth. Number of carriages would be more representative. On that basis Sydney's fleet is 5.5 times the size of Perth's, not 1.9 by using set numbers.

Sydney's bus fleet is nowhere near 5,500, more like 4,100 (Busabout 131, Busways 810, CDC 772, Interline 119, Keolis Downer 413, Punchbowl 74, Transdev 459, Transdev John Holland 487, Transit Systems 853). Although the public transport fleet (i.e. those that are Opal equipped) will be a bit less as there are charter only vehicles within those numbers. This ties back to TfNSW's 2021 Zero Emission Bus Transition Strategy white paper which reported it as 4,090. Such a glaring miscalculation makes me query the validity of some of the other data.

"Consist lengths vary substantially between cities". This compilation isn't about capacity at all, it's about fleet numbers, so don't read capacity into it.

The figure of 5,500 buses came from TfNSW and I checked it against the metropolitan region operators in Fleetlists and it closely correlated.

[Linto63]

The figure of 5,500 buses came from TfNSW and I checked it against the metropolitan region operators in Fleetlists and it closely correlated.

Fleet lists for contracted Sydney operators comes to 4,100 per the breakdown in my last post, nowhere near 5,500.

[Fleet Lists]

I think the 5500 figure includes Newcastle, Wollongong, Central Coast and Blue Mountains.

[tonyp]

I think the 5500 figure includes Newcastle, Wollongong, Central Coast and Blue Mountains.

Yes, you're correct. I changed my mind about the area covered between calculating Sydney and calculating Brisbane. Late night job and posted too soon. I'll review Brisbane again. I did invite corrections and thank you for your positive feedback.

[Merc1107]

The figure for Darwin is also incorrect - not only is that is an old total for CDC (formerly Buslink) before they took over the former Territory Transit operation, it includes high-floor school/charter buses and a wide variety of special needs vehicles used in the Darwin region.

A total of 79 buses are used for urban operations in Darwin (i.e. low entry buses in Darwinbus livery): 152, 167-213, 240-270.

Weekday rural services were being done by OH1830 high floor school buses before the new contracts started last year, but hopefully this has changed by now...

[tonyp]

The figure for Darwin is also incorrect - not only is that is an old total for CDC (formerly Buslink) before they took over the former Territory Transit operation, it includes high-floor school/charter buses and a wide variety of special needs vehicles used in the Darwin region.

A total of 79 buses are used for urban operations in Darwin (i.e. low entry buses in Darwinbus livery): 152, 167-213, 240-270.

Weekday rural services were being done by OH1830 high floor school buses before the new contracts started last year, but hopefully this has changed by now...

Corrected.

[Merc1107]

I'm curious what the compilation of data will achieve - are you trying to see if the extent of shortages is consistent across each capital city, or is this purely an academic exercise?

[Linto63]

I think the 5500 figure includes Newcastle, Wollongong, Central Coast and Blue Mountains.

Outer Sydney Metropolitan contracted operators run about 1,000 buses (Busways 165, CDC 394, Dion 22, Port Stephens 85, Premier 181, Red Bus 116, Rover 60), although again there are quite a number of charter vehicles in there. Add a few fleets within the greater Sydney zone that aren't part of the Outer Sydney Metropolitan system, Berrima, Kiama, Nowra and Picton etc and that maybe the 5,500.

[Fleet Lists]

No, I got that figure from a file which gave the number of buses with Opal installed.

[tonyp]

I'm curious what the compilation of data will achieve - are you trying to see if the extent of shortages is consistent across each capital city, or is this purely an academic exercise?

The issue of driver shortages prompted me to look at the size of city public transport fleets to get an idea of the relative scale of the vocation in commuter work across Australia (understanding of course that more drivers are needed than simply for the number of vehicles). Of course the 44 metro trains included in the Sydney figure don't need drivers, but it seemed remiss to exclude them from what is also a fleet statistic. While most of the figures were not too hard to gather, there is more analysis needed for Melbourne and Brisbane buses, which are as complex as for Sydney.

[Tim Williams]

Interesting list - while comments have been made total TfNSW vs. Sydney only, it might be worth listing those larger urban area within Australia, such as Newcastle, Wollongong etc., The Gold Coast and so on.

[tonyp]

Interesting list - while comments have been made total TfNSW vs. Sydney only, it might be worth listing those larger urban area within Australia, such as Newcastle, Wollongong etc., The Gold Coast and so on.

Especially since some of those regional cities now have a larger population than Hobart, Darwin and even Canberra! The old statistical assumption that the capital cities are the largest cities in Australia is no longer valid.

[Tim Williams]

As a matter of interest, it is worth sizes and population of Adelaide and Birmingham (UK). Adelaide has a population of 1.4m and stretches 96kms north to south and 20kms west to east, whereas Birmingham has a population of 1.1m and is about 22kms north to south and 14kms west to east - a small land area compared to Adelaide. And it's infastructure and public transport is influenced by Birmingham and it's surrounding urban areas (such as Wolverhampton, Walsall, Litchfield, Coventry etc. which take the total population to 4.3m in an area still smaller than Adelaide.

Hence the more intense public transport in Birmingham and surrounding areas and still the locals complain about it and driver shortages seem prevalent over the UK!!

[Lt. Commander Data]

As a matter of interest, it is worth sizes and population of Adelaide and Birmingham (UK). Adelaide has a population of 1.4m and stretches 96kms north to south and 20kms west to east, whereas Birmingham has a population of 1.1m and is about 22kms north to south and 14kms west to east - a small land area compared to Adelaide. And it's infastructure and public transport is influenced by Birmingham and it's surrounding urban areas (such as Wolverhampton, Walsall, Litchfield, Coventry etc. which take the total population to 4.3m in an area still smaller than Adelaide.

Hence the more intense public transport in Birmingham and surrounding areas and still the locals complain about it and driver shortages seem prevalent over the UK!!

Very interesting comparison - I haven’t considered it before.

However, the old saying of Adelaide being 20km east to west is wildly inaccurate now. As per the ABS, the Greater Adelaide Statistical Area now includes the Adelaide Hills Council, and District Council of Mt Barker, meaning Greater Adelaide’s easternmost point is Callington and Birdwood. Certainly more then 20km between Callington and the sea!

https://www.abs.gov.au/census/find-cens ... ch-by-area
(Search by Geography->Greater Capital City Statistical Area-> South Australia -> Greater Adelaide)

[Tim Williams]

Yes, Adelaide's area maybe even larger - Wikipedia quotes the Greater Adelaide area as 3,259sq/kms whereas Birmingham was quoted as 268sq/kms.

I would have thought Adelaide's area was more like 1,800sq/kms and Birmingham's closer to 350sq/kms - but the point stands that it must be easier to provide a good public transport service to Birmingham, with it's higher population density

[tonyp]

Interesting list - while comments have been made total TfNSW vs. Sydney only, it might be worth listing those larger urban area within Australia, such as Newcastle, Wollongong etc., The Gold Coast and so on.

I've decided on a change in definition. Sydney and Brisbane are pretty unique in Australia in having "greater" cities where the urban area rambles across the countryside at far longer distances than other cities where the metropolitan boundaries are defined by a clear change to relatively sparsely settled countryside. Melbourne does have "interurban" commuting, but the destinations tend to be freestanding rural cities rather than part of a continuum of urban development, or conurbation.

I found Fleet List's suggestion of defining the commuter operation in NSW by means of the distribution of Opal readers very helpful and this takes us out to approximately 160 km radius (some corridors more, some less) from Sydney. This means more rolling stock is now included in my tally. Brisbane is similar and has been described as "the 200 km city" and, just as Sydney takes in Illawarra (Wollongong), Blue Mountains, Central Coast and Hunter (Newcastle), so Greater Brisbane encompasses the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast, among other corridors.

So my tabulation has to be a work in progress. Railway and tramway fleets are easy to define, but buses become a challenge, other than in Greater Sydney. ATDB Fleetlists isn't so helpful in this case. I hardly know where to start with Brisbane, beyond Brisbane Transport. Melbourne I tried to nail down using this hopefully accurate list of metropolitan operators, then going to Fleetlists to count the buses - but what have I missed I wonder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buses_in_Melbourne

With what Translink calls the SE Queensland Region, I've got down to this crude map, but nowhere near a definitive list of bus operators yet.

https://translink.widen.net/s/hvpvz8n9d ... -fare-zone

Any advice is appreciated.

[Linto63]

Much like Brisbane and Sydney, while there are clear cut boundaries between Melbourne and the surrounding cities, urban sprawl has seen whole suburbs pop up in the middle leading to several railway stations being built in the last decade.

If services radiating out 100km plus from Brisbane and Sydney are included, then the same should apply for Melbourne. All services within Myki zone 2 (bounded by Wandong, Riddells Creek, Bacchus Marsh and Lara) which are served by V'/Line diesel services are definitely within the commuter belt and really it extends beyond.

If all Opal or Go card enabled services are included, same should apply for Victoria, i.e. all the Myki enabled services being those to Seymour, Traralgon, Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong, the furthest being 160km from Melbourne or the same as Newcastle is from Sydney. While it is a bit hard to quantify exactly, the vast majority of V/Line mileage accrued would be within these boundaries, and therefore a significant proportion of its fleet tied up working these.

[MAN 16.242]

I dunno how you got 4000 buses for Melbourne? But the route bus fleet is around 2300, so your figure was way off there.

[tonyp]

I dunno how you got 4000 buses for Melbourne? But the route bus fleet is around 2300, so your figure was way off there.

By counting the fleet list totals on ATDB of these operators:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buses_in_Melbourne

Obviously I have no idea how much of these fleets is used for commuter work and how much for charter etc, so I would welcome more detail. Considering that Melbourne has a tram network at its core, the figure of 4,000 buses did surprise me. Then there's also the question of services with Myki beyond the Melbourne metropolitan area. Any information would be appreciated.

[1whoknows]

Way way out. For example Dysons list counts 685 buses, however only about 100 of these are on Melbourne route service as they also have extensive Melbourne charter and buses in many locations in country Victoria and at Deniliquin in NSW. Likewise only a fraction of fleets like McKenzie and Martyr are on timetabled route service. Ventura has around 200 school/ charter buses and Northern Transit Holdings includes many special needs buses.

[tonyp]

Way way out. For example Dysons list counts 685 buses, however only about 100 of these are on Melbourne route service as they also have extensive Melbourne charter and buses in many locations in country Victoria and at Deniliquin in NSW. Likewise only a fraction of fleets like McKenzie and Martyr are on timetabled route service. Ventura has around 200 school/ charter buses and Northern Transit Holdings includes many special needs buses.

Thank you. This is the sort of information I need. Obviously, it's difficult from Fleet Lists to separate route buses from those used for other tasks.

So, from this information then, it's about 2,300 on Melbourne metropolitan route work. So how many for route work in the outer Melbourne area - the equivalent to Sydney's Outer Metropolitan Opal services?

Then there's the Greater Brisbane area, which is a complete unknown to me.

[Linto63]

So how many for route work in the outer Melbourne area - the equivalent to Sydney's Outer Metropolitan Opal services?

The CDC fleets in Ballarat and Geelong. There are some other large operators like McHarrys, not sure if they operate route services though. Christan's operate some services in Bacchus Marsh, but only a handful are dedicated to route services.

Then there's the Greater Brisbane area, which is a complete unknown to me.

The only operators of note operating routes services outside of Brisbane are Kinetic's Gold Coast (about 330 after the NSW registered buses are stripped out) and Sunshine Coast (100) operations.

[MAN 16.242]

Way way out. For example Dysons list counts 685 buses, however only about 100 of these are on Melbourne route service as they also have extensive Melbourne charter and buses in many locations in country Victoria and at Deniliquin in NSW. Likewise only a fraction of fleets like McKenzie and Martyr are on timetabled route service. Ventura has around 200 school/ charter buses and Northern Transit Holdings includes many special needs buses.

Thank you. This is the sort of information I need. Obviously, it's difficult from Fleet Lists to separate route buses from those used for other tasks.

So, from this information then, it's about 2,300 on Melbourne metropolitan route work. So how many for route work in the outer Melbourne area - the equivalent to Sydney's Outer Metropolitan Opal services?

Then there's the Greater Brisbane area, which is a complete unknown to me.

You mean Geelong and Ballarat, Bendigo, no one would class these as outer Melbourne? There'd be 250 route buses between those and i didn't count those those in my 2300 figure. Though it's not clear which places outside Melbourne you are including i.e should also include Wallan, Warragul? I