Parramatta light rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
User avatar
1whoknows
Posts: 3983
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by 1whoknows »

Is the next stop up the line Yallatoosdy?
"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
David Horowitz.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

The woke obsession is spreading everywhere.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
User avatar
Ray
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:13 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Ray »

Yes, and what the hell is this woke "Parramatta" name too. </irony>
Go Cats.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

That's it's official locale. Go woke, croak.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

Unlike any other state in Australia, early NSW localities were typically named in an English interpretation of the name given to a place or feature by local Aborigines. This was the policy of Phillip and most of the early Governors who followed him. The exceptions were English and Irish names bestowed by original landholders and, later, real estate developers, as well as some names of English politicians bestowed by early Governors. NSW has a long history of using Aboriginal place names - on an industrial scale - and owes nothing by way of "white" apology in that regard, if that's what is being discussed. Parramatta was originally named Rose Hill by Phillip and was renamed Parramatta in 1791 after talking to the local tribes. Reconciliation started with Phillip.

That aside, I do think that transit stops should be pragmatically named in a way that is familiar to most people, not as a token gesture to something we've been doing for over 230 years anyway - unless it happens to be the actual name of the locality. If they don't want to duplicate "Rydalmere" because it's being used for another stop on Stage 2, it should be called University, or UWS, the main feature that it serves.
grog
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:09 am
Location: Sydney

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by grog »

Swift wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:03 am The woke obsession is spreading everywhere.
Does this add to the discussion? Is this on topic? Not every thing you see that boils your blood is worth posting on the internet. Just accept there is a generational gap and keep your off topic thought to yourself.

Suggest everything from the quoted post onwards (including this one) is probably worth deleting.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

grog wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:28 am Does this add to the discussion? Is this on topic? Not every thing you see that boils your blood is worth posting on the internet. Just accept there is a generational gap and keep your off topic thought to yourself.

Suggest everything from the quoted post onwards (including this one) is probably worth deleting.
My point stands that it's better to name a transit stop in a user-friendly way so that people know where they are or where they're going, rather than name it for some other agenda that somebody wants to pursue. Another alternative, in this case, is to rename the suburb or locality so that the stop name matches the locality name. Good luck with that. Until then, "Yallamundi" is a bad mistake, but once some agenda is running hot, it's impossible to halt.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Linto63 »

grog wrote: Does this add to the discussion? Is this on topic?
Nope, but the ATDB is rapidly becoming more of a place for certain people to vent on who they don't like in society rather than discuss transport related issues. Little wonder the number of active members continues to dwindle.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Fleet Lists »

Discussion closed - now back to Parramatta Light Rail.
Living in the Shire.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

In Transit
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by In Transit »

tonyp wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:09 am My point stands that it's better to name a transit stop in a user-friendly way so that people know where they are or where they're going....
Setting aside any culture wars about locality names, the real issue is the one tonyp raises here - that stop names should help customers identify a location, not hinder it. We've already been down this path on light rail with Juniors Kingsford; Kingsford Interchange would have been far more sensible, but someone got an idea and managed to convince the powers that be to run with it. TfNSW has form on this with bus stops too - insisting on naming stops after obscure side streets when there is a far more prominent and recognisable cross street nearby, and similarly using obscure cross streets for bus stop names instead of a recognised location or key destination. As with much to do with wayfinding, this is a policy failure where TfNSW could do so much better... and it's not that hard (at least when political interference is absent).
Aurora
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C set
Location: Sydney Reg 3

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Aurora »

Sometimes political interference is a real negative… I used to use Rydalmere station regularly for years, never ever heard of Yallamundi in my life.
An asset of NSW. All opinions/comments are strictly my own.
M 5885.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

Aurora wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:12 pm Sometimes political interference is a real negative… I used to use Rydalmere station regularly for years, never ever heard of Yallamundi in my life.
You'd better get used to it, they moved smartly to make it law:

https://proposals.gnb.nsw.gov.au/public ... 9050ca254b

I think the best they could do now to repair the ambiguity is define and gazette the same name as a Locality around the stop and include within the boundary the university, since that's what it refers to. And perhaps an "alight here for Western Sydney University and Rydalmere" sign under the stop name and similar announcement on board.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by lunchbox »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^It gets worse. Here's the "justification" for the new name, from the Geographical Names Board website -
"The proposed name is a Darug word, reflecting ‘storytelling’ which provides a connection to the nearby Western Sydney University (Parramatta South) campus."
Who, in their wildest dreams, would associate "storytelling" with a university?
As for "Parramatta South".....the mind boggles.

Brace yourself for the naming of the new art gallery taking up a couple of acres of the Domain lawns, and then there's the Metro station under Pitt Street.
240100
Last edited by lunchbox on Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by boronia »

Petarkco wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:34 pm Tram 2172(?) is sitting at Yallamundi station as of this afternoon.
Although it has 2172 on the side, the windscreen number appears to be 12.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

lunchbox wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:15 pm
As for "Parramatta South".....the mind boggles.
Ironic that somebody in the GNB doesn't have a sense of direction.
745-Castle Hill
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:19 pm
Favourite Vehicle: CDC CB30

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by 745-Castle Hill »

The use of “Parramatta South” refers to the Western Sydney University. There is a Parramatta North and Parramatta South Campus which are separated by Victoria Road. They are both referred to as Parramatta as it is a more identifiable name than Rydalmere. I personally believe the name of the LR stop should be “WSU Parramatta South”

There is also a “Parramatta City” campus located in the Parra CBD and this is located geographically more southern so that may make it confusing for some which could be the reason it wasn’t named that.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

745-Castle Hill wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:42 pm The use of “Parramatta South” refers to the Western Sydney University. There is a Parramatta North and Parramatta South Campus which are separated by Victoria Road. They are both referred to as Parramatta as it is a more identifiable name than Rydalmere. I personally believe the name of the LR stop should be “WSU Parramatta South”

There is also a “Parramatta City” campus located in the Parra CBD and this is located geographically more southern so that may make it confusing for some which could be the reason it wasn’t named that.
Thanks for the clarification. But don't they think that Parramatta North Campus practises storytelling too, or is it only STEM subjects taught over there? TfNSW needs to bear in mind that the stop also serves the industrial and residential areas of Rydalmere. "Rydalmere", with the addition of a subtext of "WSU", was a perfectly adequate name.

Moving along the line, I see there is another trick at Cumberland Hospital, which is disguised as Ngara. This one hasn't made it to the GNB, but an Aboriginal lexicon from Sydney Harbour Foreshore Authority tells me it means look/listen/think, which I would have thought was more appropriate for a university rather than a mental health hospital. We live in crazy times where hide-and-seek has replaced wayfinding. The other thing is that they're stamping out history.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by lunchbox »

GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES BOARD
If you're keen to express your views, their email address is -

SS-GNB@customerservice.nsw.gov.au

240255
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

Here's a novel approach. Name it after the suburb it's in or at least a major publicly accessible well known facility adjacent to the stop.
Not a name to satisfy SJW interests.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by boronia »

They went through this naming fiasco with the CSE line, but sanity prevailed in the end.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

boronia wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:49 pm They went through this naming fiasco with the CSE line, but sanity prevailed in the end.
That's because the locals would likely not stand for it and many in the government live there. Funny how they're happy to impose this rubbish in areas they have no personal affinity with. That's classic elitist behavior.
Rydalmere is unlikely to harbour opposition to this virtue signaling indulgence.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
User avatar
alleve
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:50 am
Favourite Vehicle: The Kosi Express in Thredbo
Location: T4 Illawarra Line

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by alleve »

Swift wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:44 pm Here's a novel approach. Name it after the blinking suburb it's in or at least a major publicly accessible well known facility adjacent to the stop.
Not a name to satisfy SJW interests.
100% right on the first two sentences. You completely lost me on the third.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by tonyp »

lunchbox wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:21 pm GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES BOARD
If you're keen to express your views, their email address is -

SS-GNB@customerservice.nsw.gov.au

240255
It's too late, it has been through the whole process over the last two or three years, including public consultation. Evidently, the public mustn't have objected too much over these two names, though there were originally three Dharug names and the one for the Childrens Hospital was knocked out. They must have figured that the institution was too significant to disguise. Interestingly, the names on the Carlingford line were retained because of familiarity to locals as former train stations, but Rydalmere was sacrificed. I wouldn't object to these renamings if the locality or some major feature nearby was renamed with the same name. Then customers would have something to relate the stop name to. It's when the name is unrecognisable to 99.9% of people and there is nothing in the locality to relate it to that there's a major wayfinding issue.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: Parramatta light rail

Post by Swift »

alleve wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:36 pm
Swift wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:44 pm Here's a novel approach. Name it after the blinking suburb it's in or at least a major publicly accessible well known facility adjacent to the stop.
Not a name to satisfy SJW interests.
100% right on the first two sentences. You completely lost me on the third.
Social justice warriors are activists who want to impose their radical socialist beliefs on others by force even if they know the majority don't want it or will benefit. A deep opposition to democratic principles. This is a classic case of imposition of a name to appease a minority over the majority at the expense of amenity.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”