New Country Trains

[HunterLine5]

Maybe one set for Thirlmere? And of course Dorrigo would want one.

I thought of that, but the sheer thought of one up there, rusting away with other classics already in a very sorry state, chills me to the bone.

[Transtopic]

Maybe one set for Thirlmere? And of course Dorrigo would want one.

I thought of that, but the sheer thought of one up there, rusting away with other classics already in a very sorry state, chills me to the bone.

Agree on that. Dorrigo is the last place I'd send a set. They may want one, but they don't deserve it. I visited the site a few years ago and the acquired rolling stock was in a deplorable state. I wouldn't expect that it would be any different today, judging by past performance.

Thirlmere should get at least 2 full sets and extra carriages as well.

[Linto63]

Unless there is a realistic chance of an XPT being able to operate charter services like the Southern Aurora set or the Lachlan Valley Railway's Blue Zephyr, then one power car and a trailer or two is all that is likely to go to Thirlmere.

[HunterLine5]

Unless there is a realistic chance of an XPT being able to operate charter services like the Southern Aurora set or the Lachlan Valley Railway's Blue Zephyr, then one power car and a trailer or two is all that is likely to go to Thirlmere.

That’s true and probably the likely scenario, but try this …… I’m a member of the 125group.org.uk , not an overly big group (volunteerwise) but they have secured the backing of a strong fan base and their operations are very well organised.
They have 4 H.S.T. Powercars, including the world record holder, approximately 15 coaches from the sets. lots of great merchandise.
At the moment they are refitting a original paxman costing plenty but raised from tourist trips, so my point is that if they can do it then why can’t we?.

Surely given then if the XPT’s can maintain their Mainline Accreditation, then this would enable them to still traverse the same routes now traveled.
That said, the future of the XPT, at least in an operational and historical context is dependent upon the likes of groups like Thirlmere.
As we know there’s 19 Locomotives and then the coaches, so there’s plenty to go around, for me, personally, I too would like to see XP2000 & XP2001 and a set of coaches repainted into the original livery.
The distribution is going to be interesting to say the least, what gets saved, and what gets scrapped.

[Linto63]

By coincidence there is an article in this month's Railway Digest espousing the same points re the potential for XPTs to have an after life operating charters not specifically aimed at the enthusiast market, making comparisons with how HSTs have been redeployed.

The best chance of one remaining operational is for it to operated by a dedicated organisation, like the 125 Group, where it would be the sole focus rather than to an existing heritage organisation where it would be one of many types of trains and get caught up in the politics that inevitably occurs of what trains should have priority in terms of restoration. Bit like happened in the 1980s with the Rail Motor Society and 3801 Limited.

Of course the limiting factor is always money, something that is sorely lacking in Australia when compared to the UK. Heritage groups are bit more circumspect when it comes to deciding which particular items to preserve, rightly placing more emphasis on which are in the best condition, rather than sentiment.

[Transtopic]

By coincidence there is an article in this month's Railway Digest espousing the same points re the potential for XPTs to have an after life operating charters not specifically aimed at the enthusiast market, making comparisons with how HSTs have been redeployed.

The best chance of one remaining operational is for it to operated by a dedicated organisation, like the 125 Group, where it would be the sole focus rather than to an existing heritage organisation where it would be one of many types of trains and get caught up in the politics that inevitably occurs of what trains should have priority in terms of restoration. Bit like happened in the 1980s with the Rail Motor Society and 3801 Limited.

Of course the limiting factor is always money, something that is sorely lacking in Australia when compared to the UK. Heritage groups are bit more circumspect when it comes to deciding which particular items to preserve, rightly placing more emphasis on which are in the best condition, rather than sentiment.

There's no reason why a refurbished XPT set couldn't operate on special excursions like the Southern Aurora, which is operated by Heritage NSW.

[HunterLine5]

By coincidence there is an article in this month's Railway Digest espousing the same points re the potential for XPTs to have an after life operating charters not specifically aimed at the enthusiast market, making comparisons with how HSTs have been redeployed.

The best chance of one remaining operational is for it to operated by a dedicated organisation, like the 125 Group, where it would be the sole focus rather than to an existing heritage organisation where it would be one of many types of trains and get caught up in the politics that inevitably occurs of what trains should have priority in terms of restoration. Bit like happened in the 1980s with the Rail Motor Society and 3801 Limited.

Of course the limiting factor is always money, something that is sorely lacking in Australia when compared to the UK. Heritage groups are bit more circumspect when it comes to deciding which particular items to preserve, rightly placing more emphasis on which are in the best condition, rather than sentiment.

There's no reason why a refurbished XPT set couldn't operate on special excursions like the Southern Aurora, which is operated by Heritage NSW.
quote]

There could be something in that, over there in the U.K. there’s at least 1 or 2 Pullman Trains made up entirely of HST SETS and painted Blue, they look and sound awesome.
By all accounts they’re doing very well patronage wise and maybe it’s something the ahem XPT SOCIETY could look into .
www.midlandpullman.co.uk this site is great for giving people here a heads up as to what may be achieved, maybe .

[Campbelltown busboy]

These new trains are delayed due to miscommunications between CAF and the government that has caused Transport For NSW representatives having to fly over to Spain to fix whatever those miscommunications where according to 2GB's state politics reporter

[Transtopic]

These new trains are delayed due to miscommunications between CAF and the government that has caused Transport For NSW representatives having to fly over to Spain to fix whatever those miscommunications where according to 2GB's state politics reporter

It beggars belief that the design criteria for the new regional train fleet wasn't communicated to all tenderers prior to lodgment, unless it subsequently changed after acceptance of the tender. Perhaps TfNSW was looking to buy "off the shelf" and CAF submitted their tender based on their current models. It's difficult to tell who is at fault, but based on design issues also with the NIF and ferries, there is something seriously wrong within TfNSW.

[Linto63]

As I understand there haven't been any inherent design faults with the NIFs, the modifications proposed are more about dumbing them down to prevent being operated in driver only mode.

The problem with the NCTs appears to be TfNSW either not nailing down the specifications at the contract signing stage or changing its mind which always will be expensive.

NSW bureaucrats rushed to Spain to resolve trains dispute (Sydney Morning Herald)

[Fleet Lists]

Thank you for that.

These new trains are delayed due to miscommunications between CAF and the government that has caused Transport For NSW representatives having to fly over to Spain to fix whatever those miscommunications where according to 2GB's state politics reporter

Without the extra information, this post was very misleading.

[matthewg]

Thank you for that.

These new trains are delayed due to miscommunications between CAF and the government...

Without the extra information, this post was very misleading.

I would guess that TfNSW signed with CAF with a clause in the contract 'will negotiate internal layout once requirements are fully settled'. (But let's get the trains started, we can discuss this later).

So CAF bid on the basis of a fairly standard sort of layout as used in Europe.

TfNSW finally decided what they actually wanted, and sent that to CAF who returned with a contract variation price that TfNSW wasn't happy with. Now both argue over if this constitutes a contract variation or not.

And it's not as if CAF and TfNSW are on the best of terms over the cracking of the Urbos 3 tram frames. CAF is not going to cut TfNSW any slack, after all NSW has accused them of shipping a sub-standard product (Urbos 3 trams).

[Glen]

The problem with the NCTs appears to be TfNSW either not nailing down the specifications at the contract signing stage or changing its mind which always will be expensive.

NSW bureaucrats rushed to Spain to resolve trains dispute (Sydney Morning Herald)

The article states:

"The main areas of dispute between the two sides have been over the pitch of passenger seats, toilets, rubbish bins, crew seats, the audio entertainment system and the location of bicycle racks".

That seems to cover a few issues.

[boronia]

It is hard to imagine that these issues would require a delegation of bureaucrats to spend two weeks in Spain to sort out. Seat pitch is probably tied in to window size/spacing to ensure all pax get a good view, and should have been sorted in the original designs.

[matthewg]

Seat pitch is probably tied in to window size/spacing to ensure all pax get a good view, and should have been sorted in the original designs.

Most European operators don't appear to care if the seat pitch matches the windows. The window locations will be a fixed part of the design - CAF will not change that. The operator can specify different seat pitches.
Annoyingly even 'premium' trains like Eurostar's new siemens E320 trains have seats (in economy at least) that don't line up with the windows. There are seats at the end with no external view at all!. I ended up with a window seat with a either wide pillar next to my head. Only a partial view around the seat in front.
CAF appears to be going for the budget end of the market. They also appear to have a problem with their welders - CAF trains supplied to the UK are currently speed-restricted as the bogie yaw damper brackets have been cracking. Entire fleets have had the dampers removed (so they don't break off in service) and then speed limits applied.

[jpp42]

Most European operators don't appear to care if the seat pitch matches the windows. The window locations will be a fixed part of the design - CAF will not change that. The operator can specify different seat pitches.
Annoyingly even 'premium' trains like Eurostar's new siemens E320 trains have seats (in economy at least) that don't line up with the windows. There are seats at the end with no external view at all!. I ended up with a window seat with a either wide pillar next to my head. Only a partial view around the seat in front.

I've never been on a long distance train that really has this sorted in coach, whether in Europe, America (Amtrak's Amfleet has the same problem), or Australia (existing Countrylink stock has plenty of seats with a great view of pillars). Airplanes are the same, but tend to have smaller pillars and more frequent windows so you're more likely to actually get a view. I suspect it's simply because there are too many advantages to being able to modify seat pitch over the life of the rolling stock.

[boronia]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/car ... 5c7rj.html

[HunterLine5]

Aaaaaand bang goes the theory or any hope the present state bunch of …………had any hopes of trotting at least 1 set out just before the election squawking look what we’ve got for you,and the fact that the whole train is sit up only, ( no sleeper cars) , now that’s going to go down real well .

[matthewg]

Aaaaaand bang goes the theory or any hope the present state bunch of …………had any hopes of trotting at least 1 set out just before the election squawking look what we’ve got for you,and the fact that the whole train is sit up only, ( no sleeper cars) , now that’s going to go down real well .

For a good chunk of the XPT's service life, the consists had no sleeping cars anyway. They were a political add-on after blowback from regional MPs after the last of the 'traditional' sleeping car trains were withdrawn.
But with only 18 berths per train. (So only 18 possible passengers per route direction per day) it really was just a token anyway. Not exactly a lot of capacity. And with only twin rooms available, I wonder how many times the 2nd bunk was left empty as a single travelling passenger had booked?
I'm pretty sure they had a policy of not putting strangers together.

I have used them a couple times over the years, but we travelled as a couple and that was only just for the 'experience'. I haven't looked recently but the sleeper ticket costs several times that of the airfare Sydney-Melbourne, Sydney-Brisbane. Airfares are higher at the moment which has apparently shifted more traffic onto the trains, but a 12-13hr train trip vs 1-2hrs flying, it's a hard sell.

[boronia]

No, TfNSW still states that "you may have to share" if you book a single berth. I think they just don't mix M and F.

If you want sole use, you have to book two tickets and two berths. But you only get one complimentary breakfast. Cheapskates.

[tonyp]

The XPT sleeper cars were ordered for the interstate services, not for intrastate trains (with the exception of Murwillumbah which was more or less considered an interstate train connecting to Gold Coast). It's more than thirty years since the days of sleepers on country trains in NSW.

[Glen]

No, TfNSW still states that "you may have to share" if you book a single berth. I think they just don't mix M and F.

If you want sole use, you have to book two tickets and two berths. But you only get one complimentary breakfast. Cheapskates.

That's correct.

I travelled on one in mid November on a Thursday night from Sydney to Melbourne and was surprised every compartment was occupied by one or mostly two people.

The crew actually announced before departure that the whole train was full that night.

For better or worse I suspect most travellers probably don't realise that the sleeper berths are soon to end.

[jpp42]

I believe they suspended putting single travellers together during Covid, but it's a little unclear whether the practice has been resumed. I used the XPT sleeper from Sydney to Melbourne a couple of weeks ago during peak holiday period and there was at least one compartment occupied by a solo traveller. However I don't know whether he had booked both berths for privacy or the other berth was deliberately unsold due to this Covid policy. (I was travelling with my partner so this didn't come up for our booking.)

For us, the sleeper fare was comparable to plane tickets, especially when airport transfers are considered, and we also wanted to try it. We would consider it again as everything was reasonably comfortable. However, we noted the return trip on that day was replaced by buses due to lack of crew (it ran empty cars to Albury) - and I understand "bustitution" is quite common on this route, something that would really spoil the whole trip if you were aiming to sleep. At least with a flight if it's cancelled you usually still get a flight later.

[HunterLine5]

I just did a “”booking”” for the 5th …. Sleepers sold out….so, they’re still in use, no apparent Covid issues unless you might be wearing masks, but I didn’t see that on the website.

[boronia]

"sold out" is often just a cover for "not taking bookings".