Electrics at Expo 22

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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1. Fully low floor buses

Custom Denning Element

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[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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1. Fully low floor buses

Scania BEV chassis

Looking towards front.

Looking towards rear - note tower at right and LHD back door opening at left, infilled with frame to support seats.

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[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
viewtopic.php?t=90408&start=1000

1. Fully low floor buses

Toyota hydrogen buses, 10.7 metre and 7 metre

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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2. 90% low floor bus

Volvo BZL

Note pipework and cables at rear where low gangway should be:

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With Express single-door body:

With Volgren two-door body:

bzl3a.jpg (67.23 KiB) Viewed 1864 times

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

ARCC

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[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

BCI

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

BLK

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[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

Ebusco

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

King Long

Gigantic stairs define this "ultra low floor".

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

Nexport

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

Volgren/BYD

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[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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3. Low entry buses

Yutong

[tonyp]

Photos to illustrate electric bus discussion in Sydney/NSW section of forum.
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4. Low entry front door and stepped centre door bus

Bustech ZDi

There is also a small step in the centre door threshold out of sight to the lower right.

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[Merc1107]

When you said some of those steps were high, you weren't kidding. They look even worse than the CB80s.

[tonyp]

When you said some of those steps were high, you weren't kidding. They look even worse than the CB80s.

With about a dozen low entry buses to go through, it was like a morning at the gym. Catching one bus, it's only a temporary inconvenience. You don't fully appreciate what a standout the Element is (closely supported by the Scania and Volvo) until you see it alongside these mediocre offerings.

[tonyp]

I missed the Foton hydrogen bus, another low entry.

foton2a.jpg (69.17 KiB) Viewed 1739 times

[ScaniaGrenda]

On the discussion of the Volvo BZL, at least we know it is theoretically possible to enable a fully flat floor (as we can see from the Express bodied example). The problem is this shows the same problem the prototype ZDi was facing where some of the seats are below the window line and the windows still go up as if the rear was from a low entry design, not something I as a rider would be particularly fond of and as much as I was hoping Bustech would keep a full flat floor chassis, I suppose if they were not able to do it then this is for the better although I can't say I'm fond of the end product ZDi's rear chassis, another one of those high-floor nightmares, I'd definitely swap it out for the BCI's rear end layout.

The alternative is if we can't have a full flat floor bus then the next best example is definitely the equivalent to the BZL, It would've been nice if King long and Foton were able to suit however I suppose such an ancient and redundant design has been baked into our buses that operators would "freak out" at the stance of seeing a fully flat floor design, at least some embrace it, others ????

[Bovways]

You don't fully appreciate what a standout the Element is...

An Element fitted with all the driver-friendly cab design features of the Yutong would be the perfect BEB in my opinion.
Certainly the Element is one of the most pleasant buses I've driven since the early lowfloors (o405NH, B10BLE, L113/L94). I have a profound distaste for computerized accelerator and brake systems on just about all of the diesel low floors that have arrived since; jerky acceleration, cut back too much off the line for emissions sake, and brakes that almost always give a jerky stop, not to mention having to play the game of "what's going to happen this time that I touch the pedal?".
The Element just seemed so smooth and predictable, and the one-pedal driving was amazing. Like the best-ever lift-off retarder in a diesel.

C

[tonyp]

An Element fitted with all the driver-friendly cab design features of the Yutong would be the perfect BEB in my opinion.
Certainly the Element is one of the most pleasant buses I've driven since the early lowfloors (o405NH, B10BLE, L113/L94). I have a profound distaste for computerized accelerator and brake systems on just about all of the diesel low floors that have arrived since; jerky acceleration, cut back too much off the line for emissions sake, and brakes that almost always give a jerky stop, not to mention having to play the game of "what's going to happen this time that I touch the pedal?".
The Element just seemed so smooth and predictable, and the one-pedal driving was amazing. Like the best-ever lift-off retarder in a diesel.

C

Nowadays, people get to drive their electric buses and cars the way tram drivers have been driving their trams for years!

You could always suggest directly to CD additional cab features you'd like to see. I'm sure they'd like the feedback.

[Merc1107]

Certainly the Element is one of the most pleasant buses I've driven since the early lowfloors (o405NH, B10BLE, L113/L94). I have a profound distaste for computerized accelerator and brake systems on just about all of the diesel low floors that have arrived since; jerky acceleration, cut back too much off the line for emissions sake, and brakes that almost always give a jerky stop, not to mention having to play the game of "what's going to happen this time that I touch the pedal?".
The Element just seemed so smooth and predictable, and the one-pedal driving was amazing. Like the best-ever lift-off retarder in a diesel.

The Elements do sound pleasant. I too also cannot fathom the level of over-engineering and noticeable under-performance of modern buses in terms of their predictability in different situations, and thus the ability to deliver a smooth ride. What was wrong with a brake pedal that directly controlled a physical air valve? Or a gearbox that would deliver more consistent behaviour? (I'll leave out electronic throttles as those, at least, seem far more responsive in buses than any late-model car I've driven). The O405 (plus NH), and L94 are definitely among my favourite buses - in spite of some modest computer meddling, the NHs delivered perfectly predictable stop and go performance.

It certainly feels as though the people who design modern buses have never had to spend 8-10hrs a day, every day, driving them. Or even riding as a passenger, and seeing how all their "you-beaut" fuel-saving ideas work out when subjected to real-world conditions and drivers who never cared particularly much for good road-craft. I would agree with Tony that sending CD some feedback on the cab layout (or even any quirky behaviour) could be very beneficial.