West Harbour Tunnel

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Post Reply
User avatar
Ray
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:13 am

West Harbour Tunnel

Post by Ray »

Any announcements yet on whether buses will use this tunnel? Could be interesting. Might even have L depot running North Shore services!
Go Cats.
User avatar
pgt
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:05 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202/MB O305G/Volvo B10M
Contact:

Re: Western Harbour Tunnel

Post by pgt »

Ray wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:45 am Any announcements yet on whether buses will use this tunnel? Could be interesting. Might even have L depot running North Shore services!
Given where it goes, I'd think it pretty unlikely for a route service bus - in service - to use it based on what's at each end of the tunnel.

Qualifying "in service" since Transit Systems only really runs the 320 to/from Gore Hill on the north shore - if it survives in its current form after stage 2 of the metro line opens, and I could only imagine out of service buses to/from Leichhardt at a pinch even using that tunnel... though may still be more likely to use the harbour bridge and Warringah/Gore Hill Freeways.
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
Might be a way to lead life, but more like the way that some people drive.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by moa999 »

Well it's indefinitely delayed.

But would make sense for some form of a Northern Beaches to West Metro connection when it opens.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by Transtopic »

moa999 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:27 am Well it's indefinitely delayed.

But would make sense for some form of a Northern Beaches to West Metro connection when it opens.
I don't think that the Western Harbour Tunnel has been delayed, but the Northern Beaches Tunnel extension is now questionable by both major parties. Although the Labor party has indicated that it would cancel the Northern Beaches Tunnel, it appears that it has accepted that the Western Harbour Tunnel is too far advanced to cancel it.

There's next to no chance of West Metro connecting with a future Northern Beaches Metro. Aside from the fact that the government does not support branching of metro lines, if ever a Northern Beaches Metro comes onto the agenda, it's more likely to follow an alignment through the high density Mosman peninsular via Neutral Bay, Cremorne and Spit Junction, which is eminently suitable for a metro line.
User avatar
jpp42
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by jpp42 »

Transtopic wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:35 pm Aside from the fact that the government does not support branching of metro lines, if ever a Northern Beaches Metro comes onto the agenda, it's more likely to follow an alignment through the high density Mosman peninsular via Neutral Bay, Cremorne and Spit Junction, which is eminently suitable for a metro line.
I expect the mantra against branching metro lines will have to be revisited - the core of Metro through the city can support up to 30 tph and it makes no sense to extend that frequency of service all the way to Tallawong and Bankstown. It's a wasted investment over the long term if they don't come up with a strategy to branch it to serve more areas. I am guessing the lower north shore is not ideal because NIMBY-ism will prevent the higher density development that they want to drive with Metro, but there are various alternatives.
lunchbox
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Bicycle - no waiting - on time
Location: Sydney

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by lunchbox »

Metro policy regarding branch lines may be fluid, depending on who's in charge. I recall stub tunnels on the Chatswood-to-Sydenham Metro plans, somewhere around Crows Nest, but they were dropped.
Transtopic
Posts: 1490
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by Transtopic »

lunchbox wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:51 am Metro policy regarding branch lines may be fluid, depending on who's in charge. I recall stub tunnels on the Chatswood-to-Sydenham Metro plans, somewhere around Crows Nest, but they were dropped.
Yes, in the earlier planning stages, it was proposed to have stub tunnels at Victoria Cross Station for a future Northern Beaches Line, but they were subsequently dropped. The excuse at the time was that it couldn't be certain where future stub tunnels would be needed and that it could be undertaken later when required. That's a load of crap. It would be almost impossible now to construct stub tunnels without causing major disruption to existing metro services. The prospect of building another cross harbour rail line is remote. The same goes for the south side. Poor foresight IMO.

The existing Sydney Trains' North Shore Line still has stub tunnels between North Sydney and Waverton, which were constructed as part of Bradfield's original Harbour Bridge complex, for a future Northern Beaches Line which would run on the eastern tracks on the bridge to Wynyard and beyond to the southern suburbs. That's now a century ago. A man before his time.

I also agree with jpp42 that the capacity of the new cross harbour metro line is wasted without branching at either end of the line. I expect tonyp will imbue us with his opinion that it's needed for longer term expansion of services, but how long will it be before that's likely to be required on the single line, if ever? Can anyone seriously imagine that 30tph could be justified to Tallawong and a possible extension to Schofields or on the Bankstown Line? In the meantime, the new cross harbour rail capacity won't be fully utilised for many years, when it could potentially expand the rail network into new areas without a service much earlier.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: West Harbour Tunnel

Post by tonyp »

I think that moa999 was referring to an interchange between buses using the West Harbour Tunnel and the West Metro, presumably at Rozelle.

A possible route for a Warringah metro, if it's still possible in terms of compliance, is to reconstruct the eastern bridge route from Wynyard to North Sydney, then use the tunnel stubs that Bradfield left at North Sydney.

I think the Tallawong-Bankstown line is going to be too busy in the future to consider branching off it. There's already quite intense densification and other station precinct activation along the route and much, much more of that to come, including along the Bankstown section. In addition, it will be extended to both Schofields and Liverpool, the latter in particular set to generate a huge input of patronage as it becomes the fastest route from Liverpool region into Sydney.

It's a mistake to underplan, a mistake that's been made too often in the past. It's not for us to say "I don't think that capacity will ever be used". Better to have more than not enough.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”